Would Worm CD mastery be better for P2 Dehaka?

I think the pack leader duration is too much of a good thing for P2. I mostly clear a base/wave with 50% of their duration remaining only to revert back Dehaka so I’m thinking of putting it to better use with having more worm calldowns, or am I just thinking in folly?

I don’t play his P2, but if pack leaders don’t inherit the detection of Dehaka, then would not it be more logical to put more points in Wurm mastery so the wurms can jump in and provide detection to properly clean the area?

Just build a few worms and Dehaka does provide detection from his hole in the ground.

I don’t find I need the pack leader duration with P2 in most cases, so I’ll use wurm mastery instead.

Interesting, I use duration as there are always other areas you can go to with Packleaders.

You can plan where and when to use them. I’ve rarely had issues where I’m just sitting there idle with one of them.

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Mobility is quite poor on Murvar & Dakrun, so on many maps after they’ve cleared their area and/or wave they’re just wandering slowly to the next area to clear. So I’d rather swap back to Dehaka and then drop the next pack leader pretty soon afterwards. And since I’m aggressive with pack leaders, Glevig starts to run low on health by the time his normal P2 time is running out. If I’m not feeling slow I’ll usually do P0/P3 over P2 to give more map presence.

You can cancel out of Packleaders though?

usually pack leaders either kill everything or get killed in those default 60 seconds that the calldown provides.

giving them an additional 18 seconds via mastery is often meaningless, especially cause most pack leaders can not global teleport around.

I have no idea what you guys are playing… P2 Packleaders are so bulky (+100% HP) that they literally can sit there and take hits from an entire base of enemies and be fine (perhaps not Glevig, but you’re using him wrong if you’re “tanking” with Glevig lol.)

  • Glevig 3k, Murvar 5k, Dakrun 8k

If you’re getting killed mid engagement then you’ve used your Packleaders very poorly…

To put it into perspective, Dehaka has ~1600HP at level 15… (and yes I know he has Devour lol). So to lose 3-8k HP within a minute… uhhh.

The issue here is positioning of Dehaka, army, and thereof Packleaders on P2:

  • It isn’t like cancelling or dying out of Packleader instantly gives Dehaka a new Deep Tunnel.
  • It isn’t like Dehaka travels that much faster than Packleaders (Murvar definitely the slowest, and you should be dashing using Dakrun).
  • It isn’t like you have to be from one end of the map to another within the 1min period, every single minute…

Better play as P2 is to have Dehaka at one end (where you know wave/objective will be), use Packleader at another end. So that you can direct when and if you need to be at essentially two different places at once (so to speak).

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I specifically mentioned Glevig since he’s usually the most valuable pack leader. And no, Murvar and Dakrun don’t die, except against a few specific mutators. By the time I’ve cleared a wave and two bases/objectives with Glevig he’s taken at least a few heavy hits and I don’t have an easy way to get vision up a ramp to a third area. But then this is map dependant. Sometimes I’d like more Glevig time, but mostly I’m ready to switch back to Dehaka.

True, I don’t have to be but I like to challenge myself.

Glevig and Dakrun provide soft detection anyway, so I’d definitely vote pack leader duration. P0 all three are base wipingly good, P2 it’s to the point where you don’t even need to make a unit to win. May as well squeeze them for all they’re worth.

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I think everyone would like to have more Glevig, but either way they shouldn’t be lost that’s easily.

G. Wurm does provided an “explored map cast” for vision. And this vision you seek isn’t granted simply cuz you are back to Dehaka. So most players cast G Wurm then deep tunnel with Glevig, such as SoA reverse clear.

Rick is totally right, there’s no point in the detection provided by G Wurm at all. Not unless you’re desperately looking for detection against We Move Unseen, which against you should be building Wurms instead of relying on Dehaka or G Wurms.

So really, if Packleaders damage was so impressive and you’re only essentially losing Glevig at times, then duration should be your choice. Obviously it’s working for you anyway without (no doubt lol). G Wurms just don’t add much DPS even with its 70dps beam.

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I’ve messed around and I’m finding wurm CD to be useful especially against brutal terran that try to nuke you. I can just pop out a wurm more consistently whenever I hear a nuke launch.

Fair, if that works for you. I find making 1-2 regular Wurms are plenty without hurting into the mastery for just the occasional nuke nuisance.

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yeah admittedly other than that it doesn’t have much use other than increasing wurm uptime. But at least we can play P2 fine with either mastery maxed so I guess in the end it’s just up to preference and it doesn’t matter.

To be fair to your topic question, original post, and the general public (lurking/reading) though.

It isn’t better at all. In fact, it is worse to not choose Packleaders Duration.

Dehaka is indeed at a level that solo-Dehaka works fine regardless of prestige (yes lol). That doesn’t mean that choosing G Wurm reduction is better at all. Frankly, you’ve kind of tested and proven that.

I think we should be clear on that (even without mastery set 2 at all) Packleaders work fine. Yet, that is not evidence that G Wurm is better or even a better choice :slight_smile: .

I can only say that (based on my own experience and gameplay) that I doubt I’m of the noob variety. So when people say that duration isn’t worthwhile… they are definitely using Packleaders (uh differently) than me. Given how proactive I have to be on 12workers (as there is no army to be had). I find it hard to believe…

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