I mean if it wasn’t Trap it would have probably been Zhao Yun or Zest so…nope isn’t just Trap.
If it wasn’t for trap, the tournament would have been really different, see the players he defeated (in order):
Dark
Innovation
Dream
Trap cleared the most hard part of that bracket side,all the top contenders were on his side, losing would mean that a Z (Dark) or a T (Innovation/Dream) would be in the finals because Zoun rolled into many pvps.
What are you talking about?
Terran is doing great, we had 8 foreign terrans win a premier since release 5 of wich was in the beta and last 1 was in 2016 with uthermal abusing reapers wich was nerfed after.
Lets completely ignore how foreign terrans just cant seem to do as well as foreign zergs and protoss players.
Reality check… Terran has never won a kespa cup. They had to get one ex-terran foreigner to do the dirty work!
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He was being sarcastic to the comment of choosing what tournaments to consider as legit tournament championships, there was only 4 kespa cups, the rest are the usual super tournaments/GSL standalone tournaments, which some of them were won by T players,the first one starting with MVP as a champion.
The wheels spin round and round but the same people have the same arguments xD! Let’s take a look back at last years Fake premier tournament threads! We should make a bingo game out of this https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/sc2/t/terran-8-0-today-in-gsl/9443/6
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The only premier I personally wouldn’t count as premier is WCS NA/ ESL NA premier, the level is low and basically is a 3-4 player tournament, but since they are labeled as premier I count them as premier even if I don’t agree.
Super tournaments, some people don’t see them as GSL titles but they are, they have the same players but different format, that’s all, and I think since the beginning they are widely accepted as GSL titles, at least nobody had problems when naming Polt as a GSL winner.
Im also being sarcastic, i dont think anyone considers terran foreginers only winning 8 premiers since release and 5 in beta is good or even should be acceptable unless foreign terrans are worse than foreign p and z for all of sc2.
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Yes, for the overalll game having a low amount of foreigner T winners is something bad, but is the same as I wrote about Z and KR, the level of T players were not on the same level as KR T players, so in the sense of balance, was acceptable, it was bad and sad, but totally acceptable,it’s the same with foreigner P players, unless its NA premier, they don’t win any other premiers since years ago,and it’s fine, I don’t want anyone who does not deserve it winning just because race quota, if some race is winning at higher level, then that’s it, other race players must play at that level.
you’re talking now about a specific scenario where Trap never plays then not one where Trap lost in the finals. I’m talking about him losing in Rof4 or Rof2. Would have just been another Toss most likely unless Dream was likely to make it all the way.
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https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/AfreecaTV_GSL_Super_Tournament/2021/1
No, imagine these scenarios:
-First round, Trap loses to Dark, then Dark plays against Innovation next game and wins,plays against dream and wins and then Dark plays on the finals vs Zound and wins the tournament.
-Trap wins, plays against Innovation and loses, Inno wins vs Dream and Wins vs Zoun at the finals.
-Scenario 3, Dream wins and advances into the finals and wins against Zoun since he has more aligulac rating than him.
Overall, and using Aligulac ratings (which usually are spot on when determining skill vs players of the same server/circuit), Dark and Innovation are better than Dream and all of them also better than Zoun.Trap advancing was what kept Z or T having a top player on the finals who would have the advantage vs Zoun.
I think even Zest would have some problems to win against Dark or Innovation in the finals.
I think you’re under the impression I don’t understand what you’re saying. Sure we could come up with scenarios that didn’t happen where Toss only has half of the top 4, but I could as easily say Stats breaks through and wins it all as Dark. But I can’t name any other Toss who could have won…because they all did in real life so there’s nobody else who lost who I could make a fantasy scenario about that would make Toss less broken.
And incidently Zhao Yun was 9/1 before Trap and 3/0 Armani with void play if I recall so I think he was on a pretty good roll at the time.
You’re assuming that despite every other Zerg losing Dark makes this incredible run after several Zerg nerfs and Toss buffs…that’s a bit of a stretch considering Rogue didn’t even qualify vs sOs.
If Trap didn’t win in Rof4 it would probably be Zest or Zhao Yun, but sure lets throw Dream in there too, no Zerg, maybe a Terran with an outside chance…
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One month ago Dark had an amazing run and won a premier tournament, winning against Maru,Byun,Rogue,Reynor,Parting,Showtime and Serral.It’s not like the guy can’t win anything because he is a Zerg player,he can play really well.
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And he did. And was flattened by skytoss amove… XD
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Exactly this. Also, it has been pointed out that Dark is very inconstent. Especially lately. Idk why exactly. Didnt he get married or got a child or something?
And also rogue is pretty good but as he said in 2019 he didnt take sc2 too seriously but once he noticed that zerg is strong he practised and owned. He got most prize money earned in 2020 no? And dark made most money in 2019. Idk if they still have the plan to own everything or they give themself a break.
As usual, people who take 1 Tourney, or whatever data that suits their argument, and then use it to claim that it is ‘concrete evidence’.
Nothing new really. Nothing new.
Topic #1.
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This days is hard to know it, during the golden era you know they played and practiced for long periods of time every day, I think Inno said he played about 10h per day and everyone was about the same. Nowadays you know they try but not on the same level, some of them are playing BW or LOL instead of practicing sc2 like the old players did, Serral said he barely prepared for his last tournament…compare that with the Lilbow drama, he said he wanted to practice less to play more legacy and KR players took it like an offense, a player not practicing and giving everything for the current tournament.Current scene is way more casual and irregular performance is probably because not enough hard work in kr scene.
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In my thread I refer to all IEM/GSL LotV results. Not a single tourney. This tourney was just emblematic of the trend of like 5 years of results.
edit: amusingly I keep getting told Dark or Rogue have done well in this or that tournament, which I’m well aware of, but which again don’t alter an entire trend line.
I do think arguing about if a Brood is better than a Carrier is dumb and not a great way to understand balance. And I agree with most of the ideas you link.
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You’d think that less hard work would leave more space for new names to pop up. But doesn’t feel like this has happened much. Maybe the older players still have a lot of built up skill that only degrades slowly? dunno
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Yes, but in KR there are no new names, even the ‘‘new’’ names like Zoun are already old and veteran players. See EU server,there are ‘‘plenty’’ of young blood Serral (22), Clem (18),Reynor (18),Goblin (18),Krystianer (17),Vanya (19),Heromarine (23),Maxpax (17?),Soul (22),Skillous (19)…even Reynors little brother is around 15 and already got into GM and apparently wants to try sc2. in KR server,it’s mostly old guys who are about to retire and go to military,the younger players are around 24 years old.
The situation in KR is strange, its a really niche scene with almost no chance for new names to appear.