I know it was changed because of Widow Mine proxy rush back in HotS…but now that Mines needs an upgrade to become fully invisible, why does Zerg have the privilege to make Turrets without even needing an Evo Chamber like ALL other races do?
Let’s also not forget that for some unknown reason Supply Depots take 3 seconds longer to build compared to Pylons and Overlords. What is even the point?
The reason being was that in WOL it was easy for zerg to get caught off guard by cloak, and if they didn’t have a lair, they were screwed. Terran had access to scans, and Protoss usually opened robo and could get a observer (or oracle in HOTS). But if zerg misjudged and didn’t have their evo it was basically over. So when hots was coming about they took out the evo chamber requirement so that zerg could reactivity put down a spore and while they may take damage, the game wouldn’t end effectively.
Yea oracle is supposed to get only like 2-3 drones ? It doesn’t even pay for itself. And spores build mega fast. Also if you go 2 starport, which zerg can scout easily, since they got overlord speed at t1, they just make double spore and drone up, counter to phoenixes is making drones.
So it was ok to force Protoss to open Robo but zerg needed help so they wouldn’t be forced to make a lair? LoL ok.
That’s not what I said. The way protoss production works in branching. So protoss want to get either a stargate or a robo out so they can either get a warp prism out to harass, immortals out to defend, oracle out to harass or scout or phoenix out to clear out phoenix. So no matter what they want to utilize one of those two production structure for their long term plan and both give detection. Zerg works differently. Their production is linear so you go straight up as opposed to branching. And the way zerg works with their units they may not go straight up to lair. They may get roaches to defend or need ravagers whatever. It has to do with the timing. Protoss opens their gateway and then gets their detection building. Zerg doesn’t always work that way, they need to take a third, get a baneling nest or defensive roaches all of that eats up gas. So they don’t always have the option to just go straight to lair and get an overseer. And it takes way to long to get the evo and then the spore. You have to take into account proxy as well. That throws a curve ball as well. If they proxy and you don’t have a lair or an evo you are just basically screwed. So they removed the evo requirement to allow for better game play.
To annoy terran players. Specifically.
There is a whole conspiracy to make terran unviable and zerg OP. Everybody is in, except terrans. We laugh at you behind your back while secretly adding miliseconds to terran build times every time nobody seems to be looking.
We got a bit disctracted and threw them a bone with the frustrating observer so they would calm down that annoying frustration of not getting the scan to kill it in time, in hopes nobody noticed the reduced energy rate.
No, the Protoss opened robo vs Terran every.fkn.game because a simple wall-in made it impossible to scout the Terran, which meant you auto lose to a banshee.
Also, your argument is stupid, if the protoss production BRANCHES out, forcing them into robo openings literally means they have 0 choice in the matter and are extremely predictable for the entire early-mid game. This is a BAD thing.
Whereas Zerg is going to get that lair every game, it makes no difference by comparison.
Again, you didn’t read what I said. Protoss is not forced to open robo. What I said is protoss has branching paths, they can open either robo or stargate. If you open robo it gives you detection plus it sets you up for warp prism play or timing attacks or whatever. If you open stargate you get the oracle which gives you harass options, scouting options, and defensive options to help take a third. You can also get phoenix or void rays and they both have functions such as map control or defense. You’re going to get one of those two structures after your cyber core is done. So you’ll have options for detection no matter which path you take.
Zerg doesn’t work like that. You don’t start lair at the same time as a robo or stargate. You’re going to be taking your third, so that is going to delay because they have to get their economy up. No one is forced to go robo because blizzard added detection to the stargate specifically because in WOL protoss needed the robo for detection. So they gave them a second option to allow the branching path structure of protoss to work better. As I said, It’s not that zerg isn’t going to go lair, it’s that the it’s not good gameplay to just die because someone proxied and you didn’t have a lair or evo. So they opened it up to prevent the game just ending because zerg had zero options for detection. Protoss has chrono and they will have one of the two detection buildings which means it’s the same thing as quickly building a spore as you are being attacked. They both function the same way.
Read what I wrote because you obviously didn’t.
I’m not sure about wall-ins avoiding Protoss to scout when you have halucinations and observers. But, getting back to the topic, devs definitely need to revise the Spore Crawlers needing Evo Chamber again. So maybe Zerg players should be more diligent with their scouting tools?
This is a poor design choice because it means that no matter what zerg’s do they are pretty much safe, it makes the gameplay stale and boring.
What’s your point? No matter what path they choose protoss is pretty much safe because they have 2 forms of detections. No matter what they are teching towards terran is pretty much safe because of scan. It’s odd to single out zerg with all 3 races are pretty much safe against detection. We are in a state where cloak will do damage but it isn’t an instant death like it used to be and that’s good for the game.
Because Zerg has almost no anti-air in the early game. It’s either that or queens. If Blizzard listened to y’all, queens would get nerfed back to WoL queens and spores would need an evo chamber just so you can proxy banshee/oracle and get 90% win rates in *vZ.
We need to give Queens 15 ATA range. So Tempests can’t harass overlords anymore.
Because Zerg gets harassed more than T or P and has no other forms of detection early in the game. I know you want even easier wins against Z than you get right now but we have to keep the game at least slightly fair.
This is a redundant argument. Why do zerg get to build spores?
The same reason Terran gets to hide in the back and build clocked banshees or Battlecruisers. The same reason why Protoss gets to build the best air fleet in the game.
Why do other races get to have capital ships? Why do other races have a lot more options when it comes to air units?
Hmm lets do an easy comparision here:
To build cannons you need a forge
To build turrets you need an engineering bay
To build spores you need…….nothing?
Now we can see how the balance team doesn’t like it when zerg struggles against an early game air pressure or early game ground assaults:
Liberators and oracles stats have been nerfed EVERY SINGLE PATCH in both damage and range.
Maps have nerfed to make liberators and oracles even less effective by removed the deadspace behind bases.
Immortal warp prism: Nerfed.
Adepts: Nerfed
Reapers: Nerfed
BC: Nerfed and on the way for another nerf due to patchzerg whine
Queens have been buffed.
Spore has been buffed.
Zerg scouting buffed: maps have been buffed in favour of zerg via overlord pillars and wide open engagement areas, also the removal of 4 player maps.
Also the protoss air fleet is trash and BC’s are whined about exclusively by patchzergs which is a high percentage of the Z commenters on here.
Even with proxy Oracles and Banshee Zerg have more than enough time to make at least 2 Queens, an Evo Chamber and Spore. Just need to scout it.
I honestly don’t want to be unfair with Zerg players, they NEEDED the Spore without any requirement because of Widow Mines proxy in HotS, but now that Mines invisibility is changed this needs to be reverted.
Zerg economy is far too good and good players showed it cannot be touched by T and P so reverting this change on the Spore would differentiate more good Z players than bad ones while also slightly reducing overall Zerg economy snowball.
It’s not just widow mines. Anti-air is the issue, and just queens aren’t enough. With the ability of both Terran and Protoss to hide their tech literally anywhere on the map and with Zerg’s specific lack of anti-air units in comparison to the other two races…something’s gotta give.
Lol ok then ask yourself: do you know why zergs care if toss opened core before nexus vs nexus before core? No? Its because it affects the spore timing… By less than 30 seconds… But if we get it wrong we can easily lose by falling behind in eco. 75 minerals plus the drone.
Quick question, whats an evo chamber cost again?
End of thread.
It’s not only the Evo chamber cost but also the lost larva early game to make the economy more fair. And what exactly core before nexus have anything to do with Spore crawler? The air units will come sooner 5 seconds only at most.