Can u imagine that if a tank also cloaks permanently when it siege mode? while having insane transform speed and movement speed too? like the terran got infinite scans? and wasting that energy that shud hav been for mules? while zerg u dont even need consistent spawn larva since ur hydra lurker is more expensive than lings meaning less larva needed? BL is also very slow while lurkers move fast for cancer positioning that u cant do with tanks?? lurkers perma cloak while the scvs getting killed by aoe while they repair the fortress? while fortress n hellbat can 1 shot broodlings that heavily weakens the dps of BL? while lurkers can wreck depot wall almost as fast as bane bust? lurkers is at least vs armored for thors? while thors eat BL if they dont have support units? Thats how broken lurkers are right now, i noticed serral very rarely use them, bcos i think whats the sense of winning with a broken unit?? or pride bcos reynor made it popular? which one??
Once upon a time Broodlords used to be good. But then Blizzard super nerfed them with the bug fix+Thor HIP range increase.
They were never really viable in PvZ because much like BCs, while amazing, they take forever to get - and make you very vulnerable.
Maybe because they fly?
… or when you accidentally build too many corrupters.
Don’t tell whiny zergs how to play
You know what’s funny in all this whine? T1 bio units can still fight lurkers head on. Take your tears and throw them down the sink.
Siege tanks and Lurkers are entirely different units, they just both siege and so people have it in their mind they’re fair for comparison.
Lurkers:
Require Tech Investment
Require 2 Tier 3 upgrades to be viable
Have shorter range than siege tanks and upgraded Libs
Can be dodged (You see it all the time when bio moves back once they see the first spines going out, entire attack cycles do nothing)
Are more expensive
Can only attack when sieged
Siege Tanks
Requires 0 tech investment
13 range without upgrades
Has an auto attack that has more single target DPS than siege mode
Yeah, but BL were fazed out because of the nerfs and how BUSTED thors are against them, so I’ll exchange the Lurker for the BL nerfs reverted and having the Thor range back where it was. Sounds fair?
And no, Lurkers are not broken. Protoss has a clear transition to counter them, and Clem showed us how to deal with them with guess what? Marine tank, the answer to all terran problems. Not even liberators or ghosts mixed in.
So yup they are fine.
Your tears are delicious
They are both splash damage units with siege range, and the ability to siege buildings as a result). Comparisons based on those grounds are valid.
As for your complaints:
Yes, Lurkers have more restrictions; but they also have numerous advantages that make them a very strong (and arguably much stronger in many cases) unit overall:
- Lurkers are much faster to mass produce than Tanks–Morphed from a larva-based units; where the production capacity is many times higher than Factory counts can typically reach.
- Lurkers scale much in most engagements because their line splash quickly covers a much larger area as units advance (for full damage to all targets). The Lurker’s line splash also cannot be dodged by many units (without transport juggling) and becomes impossible for most units to dodge (without juggling again) against larger Lurker counts.
- Lurkers are much faster to move around the map, burrow, and unburrow; such that they are ultimately much less vulnerable than Tanks when caught out of position (despite the lack of an “unburrowed” attack) and have a much easier time avoiding “getting caught out of position” in the first place.
BL is only viable against ground Protoss that haven’t transitioning to air, Lurkers can be more risky path because Protoss ground can still fight back even though Lurkers are still too much cost effective comparing with almost any unit in the game.
I think the better question is why pick Vipers over anything? But especially BL.
Vipers are fast, cheaper, less supply. And synergize so well.
Only thing I can think of where you might like BL more is if you already ahead and they have a ground army with a bunch of HT. Especially if you already have the corruptors. You just morph the BL and push them until they die. But even in that case, Vipers are still pretty good.
I dont recommend building BL at all against Terran, they just have too many hard counters.
You realize you did not argue his point? What he wrote is a jusification why lurkers have those sort of advantages. Lurkers Should scale better (debatable but sure lets grant it), they should move around faster and should siege faster. Why? Preciseley because of the restrictions, cost and the time in which they come into play t, not to mention the much lower range . If you are good enough you can deal with lurkers with marine tank. If not add ghosts and liberators.
Serral doesn’t use them because lurkers aren’t useful until the late game and he doesn’t want to play late game. Gee, I wonder why
Vipers are outranged by HT and Thors and they’re super squishy.
Broods were very common in ZvP and still are somewhat. They’re not made against Terran anymore because they’re ultra hard countered by Thors.
I didn’t make a single complaint. I listed how the units are different and why it’s okay for the Lurker to be more effective at positioning than the siege tank.
Both broods and lurkers suck beyond comprehension. Broods are heavily over-countered even by the units they are supposed to counter. Lurkers can’t deal with either tanks or liberators without vipers, but Terran has easier access to the viper’s counter (aka the ghost) than Zerg does to vipers. Terran is also ahead in upgrades. Lurkers are not a viable unit in TvZ.
Your only option is to make lots of banes and take inefficient trades until 3/3 and adrenal glands, at which point in time your lings can finally be a threat to Terran’s defenses and you can FINALLY be on the offensive (even if it is only some small counter-attacks).
ZvP: Bl hard counter to robo + Gate (careful stalker count). if toss go for air you have already spire.
ZvT: thx nerf and thor buff. Bl get deleted vs mech.
vs bio: 8+ bl not bad… but the game is to fast so before bl can fight bio is on the other side of the map.
you know widow mine?
bad argument. so ~8-9min you can start build Lurker.
Tank ~3min or 4. so you have ~5 min you can build ~10 tank with one Factory. with 2 ~15-18? on 3 factory …?
serral does not like lurkers. it takes a long time to build them and to upgrade them.
lurkers are also different in direct combat against bio. normal zerg attacks. → you come into terra range. burrow lurker → terra stim/ stutter step. unborrow follow-> burrow…
Lurkers are good fighters at Terra base. because they can run fast from Terra base to base.
In def they stop marine poke, but against slow tank push they have problems.
150 health 1 Armor=squishy. Ok
They are literally the tankiest spellcasters in the game are rechargeable and also the strongest spellcaster and are flying. But Sure will zerg whiners whine about that.
And btw with ht and Viper having same Range it was too easy to pull lategame army apart because high templars are too slow. With ht now outranging Vipers its fair because Vipers are much more mobile (they are actually pretty fast 4.13 movement and flying vs ht 2.62).
https://twitter.com/ENCE_Serral/status/1329523365414113281
You should tell Serral that. There’s another NA Protoss arguing with Serral on this thread making a complete fool of himself. You should join him.