Why im quiting 1v1

General Discussion
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in my opinion the forum doesn’t have enough whine posts so i thought i would make one.

Starcraft 2 has allot of things going for it, the programming is great and the campaign missions are fun, and there are lots of good arcade games. The multiplayer 1v1 is supposed to be the main thing starcraft 2 has to offer, and in my opinion, its garbage, and this is coming from someone who is diamond one last season.(not too good but just so you know im not a noob)

The reason i liked the 1v1 ladder for a few years was because there is nothing else really like it, where its just a 1v1 player versus player game and you can work on improving yourself. Think about how many other online games are 1v1 much less one where you can improve on things other than your aim.

The 1v1 ladder at first can have lots of intresting strategies, with lots of play styles to explore, but as you go higher and higher on the ladder, the options become less and less.

Starcraft 2 is way too fast paste for an rts game, a huge majority of the matches last 7-13 min and of that probably 5 of those are just doing the build order. in general you can tell whos winning from early on in the match and comebacks are rare, or at least seem rare to me. i usually can take a really good guess as to if im going to win from the 6 min mark. i feel like most of the games boil down too “who has the better build order and who can execute it correctly”. And to me thats not fun, whats fun to me is long drawn out macro matches where i actually have to choose where i move my army and how i micro it.

Take tvz for example, the new thors they added are not bad but imo zerg still has a large advantage in the late game, so basically i have to hope i do damage with a hellion build order or something and hope my opponent doesnt counter it turning it, into a rock paper scissors.

The matches honestly are really stale, think about what you see out of your opponents in the late game, and be honest. With zerg i see zergling baneling at first, into hydras, and sometimes there are roaches. with terran its bio(marine tank) 3/4 times and sometimes its mech. and with prottoss there is a bit more variety but its almost always a deathball.

So there is a small amount of variety like “oh this time im going to build liberators instead of tanks” or something like that but you are more or less using the same units every game.

Starcraft 2 is supposed to be an rts game, but it doesn’t really feel like one. the most tactical matchup is tvt, the other two involve almost no strategies and is mostly just who has the better build in the early game and who can press buttons faster in the lategame. The reason for this ino is because of recall and creep movement speed+zerg turtle.

RTS means real time strategy, not real time copy build from the internet into real time apm simulator.

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Spice it up then. Make 7 thors off of 1 base and get the medivac upgrade and show the ladder the power of positive thinking and obscene drop micro.

Serral VS Reynor? No strategy?

I think you’ve fallen in to the “oh man I’m almost masters and I REALLY NEED TO TRY HARD RIGHT NOW!” and forgot that you’re supposed to have fun.

Sad to see you go!

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i mean the higher you get its harder to play new strategies but still you can improve or at least to have fun, because everybody can try hard and to be salty but i see its harder just to experiment with different builds even if you know you will lose, i will give you some strats to practice and to see that there are many diff ways to win a game, i know you won’t take my builds because you said sc2 is rts game but still i will give you examples of crazy strats: TvZ try 2 base blue-flame hellions 2 factory, TvZ 2 base 2 starport Battlecruisers TvP try fast widow mine burrow and TvT try if when you face a lot of 2 base raven timming, make ghosts to emp, there are a lot of strats you can do, the onliest thing is to create them, to try them, and ofc even if you lose to laugh and tell yourself that it was a fun game, good luck i hope i will motivate you :slight_smile:

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i think he means TvT the most tactical because there are 2 options, you play bio or mech and there could be diff variables of the game: bio vs bio; mech vs mech or bio vs mech, i dont say ZvZ is brainless but the onliest thing i have ever saw is mass roach ravager into lurkers and infestors, maybe im wrong this is my opinion and dont get affected by my post

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what your saying, is what the majority of the community and all the pro players are feeling right now. gone are the days where there was many builds to explore which allowed for long and interesting macro games. Blizzard have efficiently nerfed all possible builds and funneled the game into the same monotonous play style we got now and cheesy all-ins. i really hope a big change is coming, possibly even a design change that could possibly shake up the game abit. even adding some new units like reaver can make a big change.

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In diamond zvt zerg has a little of advantage,because you can get overrun easily with an attack move,but if you manage your drops, a bad zerg will have a hard time because they are usually bad and dont know how to stop drops without sending the entire army do you can have them bouncing their army all around tge map folowing your drops.I k ow it feels wrong,but if you dont drop you are basically dead Same goes for tvp,but in tvp you also need to manage your transitions and know how to defend because protoss can destroy you on a single hit if the reach a critical point even if you destroy some of his expansions,yesterday I got called tryhard by a probably smurfing toss guy (was gm on the past and had a really long winning streak and had 200apm which is rare for dia) because I tried to multidrop and killed a couple of bases but wasnt enough,my base got obliterated with a counteattack+prism on main with chargelot/dt,all protosd did was sitting and wait.But at least tvp feels nice when you catch a noobtoss with his army clumped and you emp all his 10ht with a couple of shots.

The other day in reddit,Nathanias said that he was under the impression the developers just wanted now a very few and really small patches and that the developers team now its smaller than before so we shouldn’t hope for big changes or new units.

So probably what we have now its what we will have in the future.Maps will be the way of balancing without a developer team.

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Why I stopped with 1v1 is smurfing. I wanna play for fun, occasionally couple hours per weekend so no learning or improving too much. But hell yeah, that times is full with toxic nerds, whos playing 24/7

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just ignore them and make fun on them

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I like how people respond to your comments of general, principal criticisms with counter arguments disseminating minuscule details (e.g. situational build orders).

Everything you said is correct, except for the protoss having variety before massing up a death ball. Protoss like no other race is punished by having to gamble with a tech tree. As your opponents are more flexible in non-mirror matches, you can only pray you chosen your branch carefully or had enough luck. Which brings us back to your point of everything being so preprogrammed. Either you impose your build on the enemy, or you are clear you’re going to lose, all by 6 minute mark.

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Don’t expect a deep debate when he says sc2 does not feel like an RTS because it is so fast. Seriously, the games are short, what do you should expect, real and thoughtful strategy in the span of the first five minutes?.RTS is not a genre that requires or shows a ton of strategy, it’s mostly mechanics because it’s on real time, games are short, and we are at a point in which every possible strat is figured so everyone just follows the efficient path to the victory, but keep in mind that every game with a pro scene/group of elite players, will end the same way, with a figured gameplay that most people will follow.

RTS is 25% strategy 75% mechanics, if you want games with higher strategy you must go to the 4X genre, when you have long games you can actually thing about differents paths and outcomes.

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Just pointing out that at Diamond league ( where the OP also seems to be placed), all sorts of zany strategies are viable if executed efficiently. There’s a pretty good diversity of builds and cheeses here simply because people are making all sorts of mechanical mistakes well into Masters, which is when metas and strategy really start to matter.

But the OP isn’t Masters.

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I agree that shaking up the game a little would be good idea, but I don’t agree that “the community” doesn’t think there are many possible strategies. There’s a meta for professional players, but you can play Starcraft through high diamond pretty much anyway you want just by macroing efficiently.

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I think it was two days ago when Heromarine was playing on his stream/commentary account, he said he liked playing on that low mmr account because he felt the gameplay less stressful and when playing tvz said that his 16 marine drop timing worked because he was playing at a lower level than pro, and that account was around 6200mmr, he pointed what the zerg player didn’t do to defend it properly, so at that level people still makes mistakes big enough to make non meta builds work.

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So what your saying is that your build order mechanics are holding you back from using alternate build orders and advancing into Masters, where people that aren’t considered noobs generally and have more equal execution skills can utilize more strategy, given that good execution usually trumps good strategies that are executed poorly? In other words, you don’t want to develop as a sc2 gamer in the execution way, just the strategy way?

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it is hardly an rts when ‘button mashing’ is the main decisive factor.
When an rts game takes less than 20 minutes, there is hardy much strategy involved, because the scale itself is mostly on the tactical level. ‘Micro’, being tied to tactical usage, while the economy side of things is not very deep, except again pressuring on fast expanding.

That means there is little creativity involved, as most things you will do are pre-programmed and pre-learned because there is not much time to do thinking apart doing the robot thing.

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“Button mashing” is a criticism of the RTS genre as a whole. If you don’t like it, there are turn based strategy games.

“Good strategy” with bad mechanics will almost always lose to Good Mechanics herp-derping. That’s how Starcraft works, has worked, and always will work.

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Is 1v1 ladder even the main draw of Starcraft anymore? Pretty sure that I read that campaign is still very popular and that Coop actually exceeds ladder in active players.

1v1 might be the most famous part of Starcraft, but most people don’t seem to like the stress.

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is SC some religious-cult thing you follow ? It seems like you took it as a personal insult, if you dont like it … if oyu like it like it has no flaws and is the best thing ever, … good luck improving it.

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I’m pointing out that you’re criticizing Starcraft for not being something it isn’t supposed to be. RTS games are button mashing contests for the most part until your mechanics are solid. It’s inherent to the genre.

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On the same stream I mentioned,someone in the chat asked that question to heromarine and he said that everyone can get value from strategy and knowledge,but the game its mostly mechanics because the one who can micro and macro better and faster will win.Its obvious,you fight with units,so the one who can make more of them or manage them better,will have the advantage.

1 Like