I played a game tonight where I was maxed on stalkers, archons, void rays and some phoenix and I got dumpstered by pure vikings, lmao.
I just tested out 8 archons and 31 stalkers (92 supply) vs 40 stalkers (80 supply) of vikings, and the Toss army got absolutely demolished.
THE VIKING IS THE UNIT THAT NEEDS A HP BUFF? ARE YOU S’ING ME? The viking might be the most OP thing in the game. Another unit that can own anything Toss can make, while also being 5x better at killing workers than the oracle.
What in the H is supposed to be the counter to vikings? This is absolutely ridiculous. It makes absolutely zero sense that a cheap anti air unit should be able to dominate ground… It’s like if the colossus was buffed to be the best anti air unit, too. Give me a break.
Perspective… the viking is cheaper than the phoenix. So, naturally, the phoenix should be able to kill a maxed army of m&m by itself and, on top of that, should get a HP buff. It shouldn’t take someone saying this is imbalanced to realize this is beyond stupid.
I just tested out zealots + archons 80 supply vs 80 supply of vikings. The vikings own that, too. COME ON MAN. COME THE F ON.
There is no excuse for this. You would have to do ZERO TESTING to implement this. It makes no sense and is embarrassing.
At the bottom of post, I told you. I tested out archons + zealots with charge, and guess what? Pure vikings also beats that comp at even supplies. It’s STUPID AS S.
This just highlights how bad the balance team is. It’s just a bunch of random b s that is incredibly biased against Toss and they slap “balance team” across the group of random joes. There’s as much balance here as a guy with 1 leg walking on ice , while also being drunk.
Captain stupid here to save the day. “We think the nydus being killed by probes is problematic! I know what to do! Let’s make it f’ing invincible! We have another problem. The viking isn’t that great on the ground. I know what to do! Make it DOMINATE EVERYTHING.” Absolutely genius.
Who needs a middle ground/balance, when you can just go to the far edge of the extreme and then even buff its HP, cause you know… it’s not quite good enough yet. You can’t make this stuff up.
Let’s look at a few things here. Vikings are ranged, we can all agree. So that’s why they wreck pure zealots. Same reason why equal supply marines wreck lings, because of range. Vikings also do bonus vs mechanical, so stalkers get beaned too. Dunno what matches you’re playing, but I have never seen vikings just on the ground engaging my army in mass numbers. And if they are, that’s an issue in itself. Why do they have so many??? They’re certainly not an early game unit, and void rays pretty much shred them 2 to 1. Scout maybe?
Test it out yourself. Vikings beat everything you can make except phoenixes. But if you make phoenixes they just use 1 anti armor missile and then you lose that, too. It’s time to just face it. They’re trying to make a non Korean Terran a world champion level player. Trying to will it.
This is match fixing at the highest level, but race fixing. They could not make this race any easier. The only guy who is able to come up with a strategy that is bad is Ruff. One guy in the world. It’s the greatest feat in the game.
If he really had that many vikings, why did you even have voidrays and phoenixes? Also vikings in ground mode counter stalkers. You made an army that got completely countered by Vikings and are surprised by this? I get you are GM man, but why voidrays and phoenixes? They are the single worst units you can make vs Terran.
I don’t know too much about vikings anymore, but the current trend of continually buffing its HP seems a bit misguided in my opinion. If it comes to the point that AoE spells don’t do too much vs them, I don’t want to even imagine what TvT would devolve into.
I’m imagining some post-apocalyptic tank-viking arms race with 4 hours resieging and dancing back and forth betweem turret lines to gain 1/4 of a screen of space, and nevermind even beginning to dream about the adventure of trying to go up a ramp. Like… Everything on the ground dies to tank lines, everything in the air dies to vikings, if you try to push with your vikings, you can get AAMed or shot by turrets and be forced to back off…
It’s easy to say “why did you make x” when the unit counters everything. How many times do I have to say… it BEATS ZEALOTS + ARCHONS. When you can’t even win fights with your best ground comp vs an anti air unit… no s I looked stupid by deciding to make “insert any unit.”
The only thing that can possibly beat vikings are phoenixes. So OFC I tried to add in some. Makes zero difference though when the race has emp and anti armor missile. It’s just extra insult to injury, just in case a guy could have possibly lost a game. Get a free win for energy card.
It’s such a f’ing joke how over the top Terran units are, while they find the dumbest excuses to nerf feedback, the observer, Toss air upgrades… the list is endless. No one can even remember half of the stupid stuff they implied was too good.
Our race can never be too weak and the other races can never be too strong. It’s just magic. The only unit left that doesn’t win every mono battle vs any Toss unit is the SCV.
There is going to be a day when the colossus can’t even beat a SCV and people will just be like “yeah… the SCV needs more HP” and they won’t even be sarcastic.
Viking is a cheap unit that beats everything. But, guess what guys… the tempest still can’t do any DPS because its range is too high. Gotta be extra careful… or else it might kill a single viking.
Oh, one of the 3 stoogies. I say hey guys I tested every comp vs vikings in a unit tester. Myohmind: I know what’s really relevant! A ladder replay! I’m too dumb and armless to possibly test it myself, so let me just harass a guy with something completely irrelevant instead.
Everyone is sick of you being an idiot. I already said the exact f’ing supplies that I tested and the results. There are no replays of unit tester. The ladder isn’t some magical f’ing place where the stats of your units change.
Test it out yourself if you don’t believe me or STF U.
Chargelot archon, immortal ,(+storm) /thread
Also for the most part ur ground will have 3/3 while vikings will always be behind on upgrades unless super lategame…
I had immortals, too. Vs mass vikings, it doesn’t even matter what ground units you had that could beat vikings on the ground, since they will just snipe your obs and kill you with banshees.
Absolutely brain dead style. And, all they have to do is survive to BCs for extra laughs. Imbalance ontop of imbalance ontop of imbalance.
First of all, your issue is using Stalkers against the Viking’s broken bonus damage to mechanical. Second, why Void Rays? Aren’t they out-ranged and out-produced by Vikings? That sounds like a bad unit choice for a similar reason to Stalker.
I imagine Archons are failing because they’re so fat with so little range and small enough AoE that vikings are chunky enough to barely be affected by.
Anyway. Vikings need more HP because in normal situations they die to Corruptors and Storms and so forth. However, Vikings absolutely need to lose their bonus to Mechanical units because it’s broken, much too efficient. They need HP to give them time to be useful, not be overpowered against a particular demographic of units.
TL;DR - I agree that Vikings need to lose their bonus to mechanical, its stupid as hell.
The problem is Terran hard counters everything if both players play competently. Ghosts > templars. Vikings > everything else. Tempest is useless so liberators > ground and carriers…
I even had mass colossi lose to pure marines the other day… Terran can win even their worst case scenario through sheer DPS.
The main reason P vs T was easy in HotS was the ability to force out vikings. If the vikings killed the colossi, you could just remake ground and the vikings were dead weight. It was a lose/lose impossible balance act for Terran. They either over made vikings or under made them.
Now? One of the main reasons P vs T feels impossible is because the viking is allowed to counter everything. And wth is every Terran unit better at harassing than the oracle? It’s ridiculous.
I’m trying to make void rays because I’ve already tried everything else. Everything sucks. The only thing that is “semi decent” is called having 10 expansions and simply being able to make “50 units to every 1 unit he makes.” Obviously that’s not something you can consistently do vs anyone good.
Protoss detection just isn’t good enough for mass vikings to be viable. I rarely ever lose P vs P because timing attacks are near impossible. Snipe an obs, warp in one dt… attack over and game pretty much over. When you’re massing vikings… make a couple banshees… Toss has to get lucky to do anything.
I’ve heard rumors that the balance team isn’t really comprised of anyone who plays Terran at a high level. That might help explain some of the choices that have been made over time. For the most part I think the Ghost bit is fine and I do hope the Tempest change helps since more HP is better than more shields in TvP. I’ve seen mixed results but nothing that really indicates a problem with Ghost per say.
