I don’t understand how people on here get so butthurt when disagreed with. Everyone believes they have supreme omniscient knowledge of the game and for anyone to disagree with that means they have committed a grave sin worthy of being crucified. No possible room for being wrong or for having respectful disagreements.
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I guess it’s the fault of anonymity. In a day to day exchange with somebody face-to-face people would be more careful about the way they express themselves.
Except hopeless pathological cases like BatZ that are beyond hope.
Tell me you are a teller without telling me you are a teller.
An information economy is an economy where small tidbits of information are worth more than substantial portions of the entire economy. For example, the timing of when to stop watering tomatoes is absolutely critical. They ripen shortly thereafter. If you wait too long, you lose your crop to a frost. If you go too early, you can’t sell after the other producers when prices are high (instead selling when prices are low). Knowing when to plant and harvest, pushing the boundaries of what other farmers are capable of, gives you a massive competitive edge and is only possible with the immense weather monitoring infrastructure in place. The United States is very much an information economy. The tomato industry alone is worth 190 billion dollars. Planting early or harvesting late generally has a gain of 0.5-1%. That’s roughly 1.9 billion dollars.
The SC2 economy is no different. You are so filthy rich with 10’s of thousands of minerals that a marine is cheap. It’s almost worthless. But, missing 1 red dot can kill hundreds of marines and throw entire games. So suddenly knowing where the red dots are is worth more than the actual minerals themselves. SC2 is an information economy. You exchange minerals and gas to gain information and that information is worth vastly more than your entire bank of minerals and gas.
Meanwhile I got there with a broken finger, spamming random build orders, on a balance patch that heavily disfavors zerg, without having played in months prior and with absolutely zero meta or map knowledge. I did it while talking like an ape just to add a theatrical aspect to the achievement. I thought it was funny to destroy my opponents with horrible builds while making fun of their brain power by mocking their speech with ape-talk, but ironically they loved it and it made me quite famous. This is just one thing in dozens that I excel at. I have literally never encountered a single thing that has been intellectually challenging in my entire life. People used to say, XYZ thing physics blah blah so hard and I was worried about it and then I breezed through the classes like they were nothing. The hardest part was staying awake in class honestly.
It depends on whether you are talking about specifics or generalities. There are some things that apply almost universally. For example the vast majority of people are of average intelligence, the variance is very tight, so you can safely assume 99.99% of the people you run into on the internet, who are busy talking about video games rather than studying important things like mathematics, are of average intelligence.
If it’s a specific prediction like what type of candy is your favorite then it’s impossible to guess.
There are two things at play. First, I am testing if I want to bother talking to you because 99.99999% of the time my knowledge is too high level / abstract for people to comprehend; the time is wasted and they call me a madman. Second, I am trying to get you to go through the processes of thinking about the topic in the hopes you will realize there are huge holes in your knowledge which is plain as day to someone like me.
Your interpretation is the most brain dead interpretation you could have possibly thought of. It’s crystal clear to anyone who understands the game that you are completely clueless about how it works. For example, you say hellbat builds don’t work unless your opponent isn’t prepared for them. That’s blatantly false. It’s not coherent with the facts and demonstrates a poor understanding of the meta. I was simply trying to get you to think about the topic so you’d, perhaps, start to realize just how clueless you are. Realizing you are a dunce is the first step towards fixing it. Instead you’ve decided to create a conspiratorial narrative in your mind wherein you are being entrapped into looking stupid when in reality, according to your narrative, you aren’t stupid - you are just being trapped. I hope you realize just how stupid that sounds. Also thanks for letting me know it’s a complete waste of time to talk high level concepts with you so I will keep this as super simple as I can.
You just can’t see the connections because the levels of abstraction are too deep.
FYI when I was in 4th grade I had the scale score of 737. Standardized testing usually measures relative to your grade level aka your peers of the same age. They do this because intelligence is highly correlated with age. As your brain develops, you become smarter. A scale score tells you where you are at relative to other grades. 737 is higher than the average 10th grader. That might sound impressive until you calculate what percentile of intelligence that puts you into at which point it becomes absolutely mind blowing. To know that, you have to know the variance of scores.
Scores will undoubtedly be a roughly uniform distribution that corresponds to age. The mean for the 4th grade is (999/13)*5+100=384. The variance would then be (999/13)/12^0.5=22. That means a 4th grader with the score of 737 is (737-384)/22=16 standard deviations from the mean. To put this into perspective, a z-score of 3 is top 0.27%. A z-score of 5 is top 0.0001%. 7 is 0.000000000549%. A z-score of 15 means I quite literally broke their test. It’s such an absurdly high number it’s complete junk meaning the test’s accuracy is too low in that scenario. Their test wasn’t hard enough to properly pin down my intellect to an exact number.
You know, I get it. I get that crap all the time. The odds that you run into someone this smart IRL is so incredibly low that it will basically never happen in your lifetime. Assuming I am just trying to appear smart, in absence of any ability to actually assess my intelligence, is the logically correct option.
I once helped my sister’s wife with some electrical. It’s one of the many, many skills I picked up over the decades. It’s very simple stuff. Hot wire is black, white is common, ground is bare. Hot wire goes to gold terminal, white goes to silver, ground to green, blah blah blah. The idea that anyone thinks this is challenging is just depressing. The average human is closer to an ape than they are to me. Anyway I took care of about a thousand dollars worth of electrical work and breezed through it. Upon testing, everything worked fine, the first try, despite it being a fairly complex circuit including a GFCI, some switches, etc. Anyway, Ms. Sister (she’s a lesbian) was having a panic attack. She was convinced that I was going to burn her house down, the insurance was going to refuse to pay because it wasn’t wired properly and that she would sue me. Geeze lady calm the flip down. Anyway they had it inspected and the guy said holy crap this is perfect I wish I could get my employees to do it this well.
I wasn’t even mad. I get it. She would be right 99.9999999% of the time. Those insults just don’t stick to me because I understand where they are coming from. It sucks being smart because everyone doubts you and second guesses you at every step because a normal person in that scenario would crash and burn. You have to watch people ignore your advice and then get burned. If you step in and strong arm them, the disaster is avoided but they are completely unaware of it because they can’t understand a+b=disaster unless it happens so when you do a+c=success they just see you as a tyrant. If you point out a+b=disaster and they ignore you they will be embarrassed and resent you.
You are thinking about things 100 steps in advance while they are thinking 1 or 2 steps in advance meaning your answers are optimized on a level that is so far out of their reach that what you say sounds like complete gibberish to them. Literally the only thing you can really do is just stroke your ego about how right you are all the time. Of course you do this in the back of your mind. It’s a horrible social strategy to speak those sorts of things out loud. You just sit there and watch the clown circus go by like a never ending nightmare and the one thing you get to keep from being permanently traumatized is to say, well, at least I am not that dumb!
On the information economy:
I don’t know why you feel the need to explain to me what it is. I know what it is. I literally sent you the definition of it from wiki and talked about how it applied to SC2. You were not asking about if I knew about information economies or not, you claimed that it was the most important resource (apparently resource as it relates to an information economy)
As it happens, your use of the information economy perfectly fits into my answer to your question about the most important resource in the late game which was what this was about in the first place.
Positioning and efficiency are still the most important factors in the late game, and your idea of late game SC2 transitioning to an information economy confirms that. Thank you for adding further depth to how I was correct, and you agree with me, yet claiming that you do not. Did you know that a red dot is placed on a position on the map? The reason those dots are placed there is to force your opponent to reposition. Those hundred marines are standing on that position because that position is more important than any actual minerals in the game, as that spot represents an abstract resource equating to your enemies inability to mine or vice versa.
The early game is defined by information
The mid game is defined by map control and tech
The late game is defined by position and efficiency
SC2 being an information economy does not disprove any of this. You STILL have not addressed my point xD
On hellbat attacks:
We both agree that hellbat attacks work we do not agree upon which context in which they work. The context I believe they work in is a higher level version of executing a 16 pool hatch block in map 6 of a 7 map series aka it’s a mind game to throw your opponent off so much that it will either straight up end them or give you a massive advantage because your opponent was not prepared for it.
You believe it’s because they are effective because of their synergy with the rest of the meta and mechanics of the game. That’s the disagreement, and I highly doubt we’re going to come to an agreement on this.
On the intelligence rant of a lifetime:
" Tell me you are a teller without telling me you are a teller. "
It’s funny, Batz, I only told you that was my occupation because that information might be relevant for you to stop making yourself look like an idiot, pretending like you’re the only one with any brain cells around here. You attempt to call me out on being a teller, when that is in fact what you are.
You’re not the only person with above average intelligence who has had an ego about it. You want to know why I know that? Because I was like that. When I was 14 a weird thing happened to me where I became incredibly interested in the intellectual. I was homeschooled and my grandfather was a phD and professor in religion and philosophy, he passed away from Alzheimer’s when I was 13 and I inherited his library of thousands of books. University grade textbooks, original manuscripts sent to my grandfather to review etc. it was pretty awesome
I spent the next 7 years on my own volition reading those books on science, philosophy, religion, spirituality, etc. etc. I spent thousands of more hours researching those topics through lectures, podcasts, discussions with academics etc.
I came to find out later on that my father, uncle, and grandfather all had a similar experience at the same age where they were struck with a deep interest in intellectual things. It’s most likely genetic. All of a sudden it was difficult to talk to “average” people because it was as if I was living in a different universe.
This went even further when I started practicing meditation, used psilocybin, etc.
When your consciousness gets raised that much so fast it can be incredibly terrifying, and it can also lead to major complexes, like a ginormous ego and pride over your own intelligence. I went through this really bad through my teen years and it took getting kicked on my a** several times by life to finally get over it and humble myself. When you feel like you’re different, like you’re smarter than average, superior in this or that, it becomes easy to rationalize every disagreement as “this person is simply less intelligent than I and cannot possibly comprehend how right I am”
I can tell by the way you’re writing that you’re a very intellectual person, very similar to me in fact. The things you just said about your own intelligence were things that I used to think all the time. I feel like you’re just looking for someone to take your intelligence out on so to speak because no one in your real life actually respects your intelligence which is why you have to come onto these forums and proclaim how smart you are to everybody else. Because when I used to do that, people on these forums pointed it it out, and the things I said sounded very similar to what you just wrote.
It might be hard for you to understand that no matter what you do you’re not going to make me feel like an idiot. You aren’t going to bamboozle me with word salads and flexing intellectual jargon, or belittle me by writing crude examples of economic theory to talk down to me. I can read the intentions off of your texts, they’re seething with resentment that you can’t fool me with your logical fallacy ridden walls of texts designed for the sole intention of getting someone to feel insecure and less intelligent than you, because your ego is so brittle that you cannot admit that someone can disagree with you without being less intelligent than you, or god forbid you are incorrect.
The problem, Batz, is that I’ve been here for 8 years and have seen you do this tired charade over and over again… for years! And you know what? I actually want to talk about Starcraft 2 without having a pest who is angry that their 8 million IQ didn’t get you laid as much as they thought it would.
You might think you’re special, Batz, but you’re not. I’ve met numerous people just like you.
I had two business associates last year who I hired for a production I was producing and directing. One of them went on a huge rant talking about how he fooled all of his psychologists, how he had a genius level IQ… and he ended up sexual harassing someone and therefore I had to fire him and he got so mad he punched a hole in his wall and then came to my apartment drunk at 2 AM the next morning. So much for genius.
The other one was actually intelligent, very similar to you. Could talk for hours and knew everything about everything. He ended up being a legitimate conspiracy theorist and had huge anger problems. Also talked about in long posts about how smart he was. Had to disassociate from him as well.
I’ve met many of you, spoken to many of you, in person I might add, and I always like encountering you. Because I love finding someone who loves mentally tormenting others but cannot stand to be mentally tormented themselves.
I’ve actually gone out and done stuff in my life and it made me realize that it doesn’t matter how intelligent you are. If you are a whiny, arrogant, and egotistical prick who can never admit he is wrong that is what you are, no amount of intelligence can change that. You come across as the guy who can’t keep a girlfriend because you called her an idiot because the problem she’s crying about is something you’re too intelligent to ever experience.
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Playa vs tehbatz tangents are much more interesting. 5/10
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I just need to address this point specifically so that anyone who reads this can, if they haven’t already figured out, how dishonest and manipulative you are.
The original conversation was about Artosis and hellbat builds. This question about information economies was a test of my game knowledge, a direct attempt to poke my ego as evidenced by the quote:
This was an attempt to derail the conversation into a realm in which you think you have superior knowledge and can make me look stupid. Someone does not taunt someone like this unless they are attempting to get a rise out of someone. It’s almost like I had people intentionally trolling me on this forum, people like you, for years and grew very accustomed to these tactics. You’re like the kid that pokes the big fat guy over and over again, laughing while he’s doing it, and then when the r*tard strength kicks in and he’s thrown to the curb crying and screaming he announces “I was just joking why you gotta be so mean!!!?!?”
This isn’t a conspiracy Batz this is just a fact it’s clear to see lol. I have seen your charades too much to take your comments at face value. You literally live for these conversations as evidenced by all of the s*it of yours I’ve read through the years.
Furthermore it was revealed that your point about information economies didn’t even make sense, because the description is so broad that it means essentially everything and nothing, and it depends on the situation of the game. If you’re describing a scenario with little scouting then it is an information economy, which is why it’s better used to analyze early. Once again this is your attempt to don your wizard hat, throw down a smoke grenade, and teleport into the spirit realm leaving your opponent utterly clueless as to how they were outwitted so incredibly hard by the legendarily astute and gregarious Batz.
The problem with your intellect seems to be that it’s so great and vast that it cannot perform the simple act of STAYING ON THE TOPIC AT HAND and addressing it because when you do that it’s revealed that you aren’t actually as smart as you think you are. This is when you turn to stealth mode and creates various traps to lure your victim into a different conversation where you can win, because that’s what this is. You literally treat every dialogue, every conversation, as a game for you to win.
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I like this RoboRoadkill more and more.
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That’s unfortunate. This is just the opening act. His initial attacks were pretty crude and not well thought out, still thinking I’m 13. I think it has the potential to get interesting if I can get him to stay on conversation and he stops performing the conversational equivalent of Pacquiao vs Mayweather
Kid you are so clueless it’s painful reading your posts. You deny being conspiratorial as you invent conspiracies to avoid admitting you are wrong.
News flash, your argument was that hellbat builds only work when they aren’t scouted, ergo it is an argument of and about the information economy of the game. It’s amazing you STILL haven’t made this connection.
No need for me to actively try to make you look dumb you do it well enough on your own. The evil internet account “batz” isn’t out to get you kid. Talk to a doctor and get some crazy pills please.
More like it’s your go-to coping mechanism for getting in over your head in a debate over a topic that is well outside your abilities.
There is an obvious contradiction here. By the way, your answer absolutely does not fit, you didn’t even link to the proper technical term. I was going to explain it but it’s clear I am wasting my time.
Blatantly false. Information is. Information lets you know where your units are, if they are in position, if the position is the correct position. You can’t position your armies if you are !@#$ing blind. Information trumps all. This is not rocket science. Just go try to play SC2 blindfolded and with your ears plugged and tell me how it goes. The fact you can’t automatically see this is mind boggling.
That’s very bold of you.
Kid you can’t even understand a super simple video game; how on Earth do you expect me to believe you are a financial expert when those systems are a million times more complicated. I am insulted you think I could be duped by such an obvious lie.
Don’t you dare even try to compare yourself to me. I stopped reading there. Your post is like reading the diary of a 13 year old who still believes in santa claus and is raging about how Uncle Ben said it wasn’t real and to grow the f up. I don’t have time for this nonsense 
Guess you haven’t figured out that calling me clueless doesn’t make me clueless.
I did not say they didn’t work when not scouted (I said in most cases a scouted one is a dead one, but that was a later offshoot and was referring to the generality of the build and not at the highest level, at the highest level it’s different, they can work when scouted, as I will explain) I said they don’t work when your opponent isn’t prepared for them, aka they are not set up in a way to defend against them because their opponent intentionally pulls them out after playing a particular style that forces adjustments that make them blind to the potentiality of a hellbat build. My point is that if you go hellbat builds often it will be undeniably inefficient compared to other builds that Terran can do where they CAN do them often because they are fundamentally strong. You are putting words in my mouth because you can’t admit you’re wrong.
Furthermore I agree with you that hellbat builds work because of information… the most popular builds in the meta are always those that work in the most variety of circumstances regardless of information. This is why they are standardized builds, and this is precisely why hellbat builds are not standard.
Your point on information economy was about the LATE GAME. I said earlier that information economy applies better to early and mid game. You STILL haven’t made this very simple connection, Mr. Abstract Jesus.
I guess your definition of winning a debate is by calling someone dumb and hoping they believe you’re correct.
You believe anyone debating you is over their head because no one can possibly match an intellect as ginormous as yours xDDDDD
This is just amazing, how truly dense you are. You are still trying to make me look dumb while not understanding anything that I’ve actually said. I don’t usually go out of my way to point out that someone has misunderstood me because it’s pretty arrogant and obnoxious, but it is so profoundly obvious that you are either actually stupid or intentionally being obtuse to avoid facing being incorrect.
Your point on information economies doesn’t make sense, mine does. Let me break it down Mr. 300,000 IQ.
Positioning and efficiency are the most important factors in the game once all relevant information is known. I have defined the late game as the point in the game where that information has been accumulated. If you’ve ever watched late game SC2, doubting you have with your responses at this point lol, you’ll know that there billions of observers, overseers, infinite scans etc. etc. This removes any doubt to information, the information is practically free.
What is more important at that point is taking better trades against your opponent and positioning yourself better on the map because guess what, if you manage to do that you will limit their resources and bump them down to a point where they are unable to gather information and this becomes a win condition. This happens when someone runs out of scans, sensor towers destroyed, overseers killed etc. and then you can be mauled to death by various counter attacks because you can’t scout their army. Getting someone to that point is a win condition in late game, and the way you deny someone’s information once they have a fully functioning economy and vision in SC2 is ba badddaaaa dunnnnnnnnnnn…
POSITIONING AND EFFICIENCY
If I take better fights then you and take a better position on the map, doesn’t matter if you know where my army is or not, or I have less info than you, I’m going to beat you. It just so happens that me having a better position and being more efficient means you can’t dedicate resources to spotting my counter attacks so I get a further advantage, but even if that wasn’t the case, being more efficient and having a better engagement is a higher priority.
In ZVT you can have creep everywhere, overlords everywhere, lings everywhere, spot every location on the map but if you take a bad trade even when the Terran has no information because they are out of scans you will still lose. This happens all the time, and it’s because no matter what happens it’s always more important to take good engagements and maintain map control.
The problem you’re having when formulating arguments against what I’m saying is you don’t realize that I have understood what you’re saying and have made an argument for why you’re incorrect about it while using your ideas of information economics to form said counter argument. You have been stuck at the assumption that I don’t understand what you’re talking about which is why you’re confused.
The situation in which you’d be correct is if pure information was more important than efficiency and positioning. This is the case, in the early and mid game. Once all expansions have been taken, the map has been split, information is free, and the most powerful armies possible have been built, which is what I define the late game as, positioning and efficiency are simply undeniably more important. Ever heard of the units lost tab? Look at it and tell me it doesn’t give you an accurate picture of who is going to win the game if both of the players are skilled and don’t mess up by amoving into spores on accident.
My bank account is doing pretty fine with this lie. But go on believing that no one else on earth can be competent if you have defined them as stupid in your own mind.
I’m not comparing because I’m clearly more mature than you because I’m actually staying on conversation instead of having 80% of the words in my responses being dedicated to calling you an idiot. Wouldn’t making clear arguments make that plain as day? Wouldn’t need to say those things if you actually thought I was an idiot, it would speak for itself, as you said, however you still feel the need to point it out to satisfy that little doubt in your mind that I might be correct 
I still dont get your origins (says has lived in communism) but my guess is you are an immigrant in the US, pretending you are not from the type of holes you so much speak about. I told ya, once from there, always from there, in fact you are the one that speaks so much about holes… so I dont suffer your insecurities and complexes
Why is this guy still running around derailing with offtopic nonsense? What felony what is he even talking about? US laws are not world laws. Also didn’t you speak against them, what happened ? You switch sides back and forth… talk about lack of own character to express
Goba victimizes himself after: insulting people, nations, cultures. What a surprise… trolling when sleeping too? GOBA I dont know if you are in Europe but there are much more sensitive people about nation than I am, Im not even like that im a globalist? And besides the rules of the forum say - no nation slurs.
You are a low semi-human being because you criticize or insult the life or existence of others, while hiding like a puss behind CREDITABLE POSTERS. Remember HOW YOU DEFENDED BATZ ALL THE TIME? YOU WERE THE GIRL BEHIND THE STRONG/CREDITABLE BATZ. Now look at you.
If you are female I would understand… but if you are a man , as you claim to be… and hide behind: Batz, then Playa, now Robo… this is a really HOE behavior dont ya think??
Advice to OP: dont let such trolls derail threads just report for spam trolling. Such a sad troll. Communist era spawns live in fear they always think someone is after them!
The fact that the ape had to pick up my post to provoke flamming or reaction, only speaks about the itch to troll! Troll TO THE small BRAIN
In the end Goba is just a snowflake… insults in every post… the moment he gets called out hides like a mouse and victimizes himself. Pathetic - the most fitting word here.
harassment is that of avilo for some women, taking phone numbers, messing their lives. what someone says on a forum to you is part of your forum experience when you provoke it, get over yourself
There are always these fools that dont take a note and learn from it, they wanna trigger others and never expect return HMMM what?? This Goba is such a pathological liar and troll… can one thing said by him be not a troll?
(SHHH DOES HE REALLY BELIEVE HE IS STALKED BECAUSE SOMEONE REPLIES TO HIM ON A FORUM 
Let’ s not break the belief! Keep it )
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We’re both growing older. 
No one’s ego is being rubbed the wrong way here, you’re just a joke. People laughed at you because of how out of touch you were and still apparently are.
Again, no one is insecure. If you’re meant to be naturally talented, you’d make me supremely confident about my own talents but sadly that isn’t the case.
So you never got to the skill level you wanted?
I’m 2-0 against you on ladder BTW, and I can’t play TvZ for the life of me.
No you haven’t, this is just your ego talking. Objectively speaking, you failed at achieving your goal, all this text is just you rationalizing your own failure.
You don’t have arguments, you just assert that something doesn’t work in a verbose way. So I’ll say this clearly, hellbat all ins work at the highest level of SC2. Objectively that is the case.
The “crime” you committed was being delusional.
Nice job following your own rules. Please, don’t respond to my heckling all if you can. This is a fun thing you got me excited for.
But you do care, that’s why you’re writing essays back at a few comments I made.
How old do you think I am?
The logic of this worm is breathtaking. I cited US Code and the worm thinks i am from USA, if i had cited the Hammurabi Code this imbecile would think that i come from the past…
It’s so fun sending this damaged-goods in a goose-chase: a year ago i mentioned the Istambul Bazaar and the moron concluded that i was Turk…
I dont have to guess you anymore. you are a 
Honestly lurkers are just straight up good units that have no real downside other than they take a little while to tech to. Once you get lurker tech you’ve eventually got a near impregnable defense and an incredibly powerful offense that is difficult to stop at the best of times.
The reality is that lurkers are simply to mobile for what they do. They are (on creep, theyre quite literally as fast as a hellion) one of the fastest units in the game, and not much slower than that off creep. As a result they can reposition insanely quickly. They burrow as fast as a widow mine as well, which means catching them out of position is really difficult to do at the best of times.
In a way, youre effectively forced to engage them straight up, which is something you rarely want to do against siege units.
Fighting lurkers should be similar (not the same, but similar because they occupy similar roles) to fighting siege tanks. They need to have clear cut counters - specifically around positioning and mobility - but should be strong in defensive positions that they’re set up in. But this isn’t the case.
Honestly I 100% agree, Roboroadkill (also, hey, its been a while since either of us have been here, how are you?). The reality is that both zerg and protoss need more options. Having a lategame skytoss composition being strong is fine, but it should take effort to get there, and should be a transition from a mid-lategame higher tier ground army. And consequently, zerg should have different ways to beat that army or be able to outposition the protoss in ways that matter, rather than relying on lings to end the game by killing the 1st pylon at the wall at the start of the game, or relying on a boring RRQ all in to end the game. People want the dynamic back and forth games similar to TvZ, to also occur in PvX.
Correct a clueless person is called clueless because it is apparent to everyone around them that they are, in fact, clueless. It is not my comments that make you clueless, it is the cluelessness that provokes the comments.
Your theories about the game are not consistent with basic facts of and about the game; simple google searches would be enough for you to correct yourself; you have time to write 1,000 word forum essays about how correct you are but not 30 seconds to do a google search and see if you actually are correct.
My point is factually and logically correct and supported by a host of literature; yours isn’t coherent with basic facts and is mutually exclusive with itself (in multiple ways).
Completely false.
You cannot position your units without knowing certain information about the map, the map’s shape, where your army is, where the opponents army is. This is extremely simple. Information is the most valuable resource in the game. This is not negotiable. You will never change any rational person’s mind on this point, period.
Garbage like this is why nobody takes you seriously. You say “I’m not comparing” and then you proceed to make a comparison in the same sentence. Grow a brain kid - the stuff coming out of keyboard is so logically inconsistent on an absolute basic level that it’s m i n d b o g g l i n g. There is no way on Earth you manage finances when you can’t string together a single sentence free of contradictions. You would invariably screw up some calculation or entry field and be prosecuted for fraud or sued for malpractice or negligence. Your career would be over before it even started. Come up with better lies, please - these are just plain boring.
Explains why Zerg loses late game ZvT the same amount as they win it, and have for over a year. Because they have a mythical impregnable defense. /s
Lol what. Yeah, they literally have to be mobile because they have no auto attack and relatively short range for siege units (see: Range 13 siege tanks). If lurkers had to move at the 0.5 movement your tears are begging for, yes, no one would make them and you could pretend you improved.
Explains why Clem regularly multi-prongs against them and snipes them even after they have been burrowed as if they were never even there. Because you can’t engage them. I mean hell, split bio without ghosts coming in from multiple angles is enough to kill them. They’re not weak, but pretending they’re invincible because you’re bad is just…silly.
That is actually exactly the case. If you run bio in a straight line at them, yeah, the bio will die…just like siege tanks. If you come from 3 angles with split bio, they’re completely useless unless they have an anchoring army to make running up on them too costly…just…like…siege…tanks. Heck, you can force unsieges with libs just like siege tanks. The only difference in how you counter them is that they have 3 less range and can be sniped unlike siege tanks. L2p.
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The correct technical term is “moe” which is short for “man-hoe”.
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MAybe it’s the eternal terran whinner mentality,but this week I have seen Uthermal and Heromarine both complaining about lurkers, uthermal really disliked it because it was too good and made the game not fun at all and HM said it was clearly broken because they can be massed and have great mobility on top of their range and damage.
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My theory about the game is that in the late game thou who trades better wins because the game because about who has more resources. You realize that being 1000 resources more efficient is the equivalent of mining 1000 additional resources? You claim to be some abstract god but you have proven to be quite lame as an intellectual sparring partner if you continue to attempt to make me look obtuse on this particular point. At least attempt to attack something more specific. It is impossible to argue against the point I am making here yet you have continued to do so.
If I were to assume this debate was in good faith I’d take this as a test of my intelligence to see if I was capable of keeping my mind on task, but you have continued to press me so I either have to assume that you are either trying to get a reaction out of calling me an idiot or actually do not realize the truth of what I have pointed out.
You have stated zero exclusive facts because all of the facts you pulled out of your a*s crack were specifically designed to make me look stupid. I made two principle points:
1 - Efficiency and positioning are the most important facet of late game SC2 insofar as late game is defined as all information is known and both armies have been constructed in a concise manner (The wording of late game as defined is important because I’ve given you the benefit of the doubt and have taken efforts to define my points, as I treat this as an intellectual discussion and not a petty debate, something I wish you would consider when chatting with me. Aka you have to read what I’m saying and recognize that in many points I’m arguing definitions, not against your point being a valid one. I agree that information is undoubtedly important however my definition of late game is when your analysis of the game ceases to be adequate in predicting victory)
2 - At the highest level of abstracting Starcraft the game is seen as a totality of both opponents decisions affecting each other vice versa meaning that a true analysis of the game must be done in consideration of both sides and not on one side alone. This therefore rendering the elimination of seeing the game through build orders, timings, and any other highly specified metrics because those decisions are made independent of information (hey, this is where you are correct), and the real game begins when both opponents start interacting, therefore making the individual see the game as a canvas of possible decisions that lead to specified outcomes according to the base mechanics of the game. AKA when you understand the mechanics of the game you know how every decision affects every other decision. This is what every proficient actor in any field tries to do, figure out how everything works so they know what to do because they understand the in and outs of they’re doing. If they are successful in this the person with the superior skill wins, and trickery cannot find its way to victory. In late game both sides can gain access to information for essentially free so the principle factor of victory is individual skill of efficiently conducting engagements. Your analysis of the game is correct until the resource cost of information becomes less than the cost of actual resources. My definition of late game is precisely the time when actual resources are the most important factor. Obviously when that moment occurs in a game depends largely on skill level but at the pro level this generally happens once Zerg’s take their 5th expansion, and the 4th expansion for Terran and Protoss. However there is a little bit of a debate on when late game truly begins because it could be argued that the definition of late game depends on tech. I’d disagree with that, which is why I define late game as the moment when information becomes free (unlimited scans, changelings, observers etc)
These are points that stand on their own. They are conclusions I drew about the game through my own study of it. I never stopped studying this game after I stopped playing competitively. My main obsession after I no longer felt like I needed to prove anything by playing (because I beat everyone who talked trash to me) was to understand completely how the game works.
I’ve spent thousands of hours breaking this game down and what you’re saying makes literally zero sense.
1 - My parents started educating me on finance when I got into middle school. One of the perks of being homeschool.
2 - It is simply clear that I am more mature than you because I have not resorted to attacking your actual intelligence as a specified factor. I have attacked STATEMENTS you have made about me and my thoughts and have defended my own territory. What you have done is specifically attack me and my intellectual ability. The fundamental difference in maturity level is quite obvious.
In a good spirited discussion anything laid out on the board philosophically is fair game. You can attack, destroy, contend with, and defend any point you wish, but the person themselves, the person positing the position, is never attacked. This completely destroys the spirit of the discussion as it is something about mere domination and power rather than an exercise in abstractual and intellectual capability.
I come from a FAMILY of academics bro. My grandfather was a professor, my dad manages a scientific division of the government and has been an experiment manager on papers that have been peer reviewed, my uncle and all of his kids are either MD’s or nurses, I have a senator in my family, multiple business owners (why I know how to trade and do business etc.)
I have grown up around intellectuals my entire life. You clearly are one, but you do not follow the rules of the game. Just like anything else intellectualism is a game and you do not understand the rules.
I’m addressing your points, I don’t care about you, the person sitting behind the screen. I’m responding only to the arguments your words have created. What you are doing is so obviously designed to get a reaction out of the person sitting behind the screen that I shouldn’t even have to point this out.
As I said previously, this is obvious proof no one in your real life actually respects your intelligence. I’ve been put in my place by intellectuals my entire life, people 100x smarter than you and me discussing topics 100x harder and more abstract than the ones we’re talking about here.
I will say, however, that I do respect you. You have a competitive nature and will not back down to argument. I think that your personal attacks are quint and show a lack of maturity, but they have not diminished my enjoyment of the overall discussion. It’s been awhile since I’ve had a good intellectual sparring, especially about something that is as trivial as this is. Life has been too serious because of the pandemic, political unrest, and economics uncertainty for these kinds of talks to happen IRL so I appreciate finding someone who is willing to enter the ring with me.
I need you to realize that the more you try to pss me off the more fun this becomes to me. I’m extremely competitive. I love a good challenge. You’re never going to get me to believe I’m stupid unless you completely destroy the arguments I’ve presented. if you do I’ll easily submit to your superior intellect and attempt to learn. So far you have presented no such destruction of my arguments. I await the abstractual master to respond.
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