Why bc never got nerfed its so broken

General Discussion
41

And yet, if it’s so imbalanced then why do we almost never see it at high level play?

The answer is because it’s not good outside of extremely specific situations - either in critical mass - which is incredibly expensive, absurdly time consuming and very, very hard to do without simply dying - or with incremental value through keeping it alive over a long period of time in order to justify the cost of making it.

And even in both of those situations, there are still effective counters to both - the latter in particular means that, since you’re effectively opening with BCs you’re sacrificing significant amounts of money, production, time and also making yourself vulnerable to specific attack timings that are easily capitalized upon if it’s scouted.

I can get behind Tac jump being an upgrade (again, map-folding is un-fun), but it already is one of the slowest building units in the game, taking a full 64 seconds of build time.

For comparison the Mothership takes 89 seconds without chrono - with consistent chronoboost it’s ~60 seconds. Carriers take ~43 seconds with chronoboost and are the same as BCs without chronoboost, and the Broodlord takes 53 seconds (including the build time of the corruptor).

And unlike all the above, the battlecruiser also requires a 100 second research time to fully unlock it’s strength, while also being more expensive than each of the above units. Oh, and it also has a shorter attack range than each of the units above too (yes, even the Mothership).

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42

sorry it looks like we were getting a bit off topic. When I look up the profiles of TerranICII and Eliwan it says 404 page not found. But anyways I remember seeing TerranICII’s profile page before and it showed he hadn’t played a single game in like years. And I think he was either unranked for career finishes or like silver league or something. Not sure what Eliwan’s rank is.

But as for Miro yes I agree with all of what you said. Yes the battlecruiser is clunky and slow and takes forever to build. And I’ve never seen Maru or Byun make battlecruisers so you’ve got a point there.

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I can get behind Tac jump being an upgrade (again, map-folding is un-fun), but it already is one of the slowest building units in the game, taking a full 64 seconds of build time.

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This is the part I have a problem with. Tactical Jump and it being out so quick takes it from being a tier 3 unit to a tier 1 unit more or less. This is game breaking. So let me give you an example. Brood Lord is a tier 3 unit. To make a Brood Lord you have to evolve your hatcherey TWICE…and also evolve the spire while getting upgrades etc…it’s not a unit that can just come out willy nilly in like 5 minutes. They should have done something like this with the Battlecruiser. To balance the unit out they have to figure out a way for scrubs to have to tech more to get it out (as in the case of the Brood Lord) or remove tactical jump…so it takes longer to get to the other side of the map…the way they have the unit now it may as well be a tier 1 unit that you can make out of a barracks. The fact that the three of you circle jerkers keep defending an ability that you admit is “map folding” as you put it only furthers my argument that it should be nerfed or just removed from the game. And terran has enough air coverage already they shouldn’t even need the battlecruiser. They have banshees, liberators, vikings, medivacs, ravens, that’s already more flying units than zerg has. Either buff one of those units or bring back the wraith or something or nerf the battlecruiser. The current state of the battlecruiser is game breaking…and is part of why so many people uninstalled the game.

43

Without Tac-Jump, the BC would be almost unusably bad.

There’s a lot of things, that after some ever-present event due to the threat of existence, are like this – Reapers are just bad, Banshees die to one static defense and anything else that shoots up, unupgraded Gateway units…

They… did. Both races have a tech tree?

Supply Depot, Barracks, Factory, Starport, Fusion Core, Battlecruiser:
30 + 60 + 60 + 60 + 65 + 90 = 365 editor, 260.71 real, seconds. 4’ 20".
(The Tech Lab can be parallel-built during Fusion core time.)

Spawning Pool, Lair, Infestation Pit, Hive, Greater Spire, Brood Lord:
65 + 80 + 50 + 100 + 100 + 34 = 429 editor, 306.43 real, seconds. 5’ 06".
(The Spire can be parallel-built during Infestation Pit and Hive time.)

Sure, you can make a bunch of arguments about how you can’t afford to do this as Zerg, but you also can’t do this timing on Terran d:

No.

I don’t think anyone is defending tactical jump in isolation. In practice, we can watch the units and we can see that the Battlecruiser is bad, despite having Tactical jump. The ability being obnoxious and un-fun does not contribute to the assertion -

And having been here for such a long time, I can definitely tell you that these statements have been uttered regarding about half the units in the game.

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44

I’ve seen corruptors get countered pretty hard by combining mines with bcs and mules.

1 Like
45

I mostly play versus the AI, not competitively, and that also goes for most games that I play other than StarCraft.

Eliwan already laid this out, but Terran actually needs to build almost the same number of structures (1 less really) to reach Battlecruiser tech compared to Brood Lord tech. However, Terran and Zerg balance is very different.

Terran is mostly limited by production capacity. You can rush to any tech, but most Terran units, including Battlecruisers, need to hit a certain critical mass to become effective or dangerous. This requires building a lot of expensive production structures. That production is also very specialized, so it can be difficult and expensive to modify your composition. The use of Reactors and Tech Labs means that Terran’s production is effectively split into 6 types of structures rather than the 1 of Zerg or the 3 of Protoss, and you can only sometimes reuse that production during a tech switch.

Zerg is the opposite. Zerg can reuse their production for almost anything, and their production capacity can get rather ridiculous as units climb up in supply. For example, a Hatchery producing Ultralisks effectively has 4x to 8.5x the production capacity of a Factory producing Thors depending on the use of Injects. Because of these advantages, Zerg must instead be balanced by slowing down their tech; otherwise, Terran and Protoss would not have the time to prepare for potential Zerg transitions. This is why Zerg has the most specialized tech structures of any faction, and they tend to have the most unit-specific upgrades to further delay or weaken transitions.

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46

Bc still great with out tactical jump they just wouldn’t be used as harass and be with main army. Since u build anti counters easily since Zerg don’t have great options with bc.

Bc doesn’t need to be harassing unit. That’s main problem.

The fact it turns into reaper style play to use full. See it be fine if can warp one directional to base.

Then Zerg can build outer defensive don’t have to worry 5 to 8 bc bypass it.
Then argument be scouting issue and Zerg can apply pressure at Terran base not worried about base trade.

47

BCs are good against corruptors if only they are in mass, also if you walk in a mines, and keep walking in the mines and there are also a big number of BCs, that is pretty stupid to take that fight to say at least!

48

They were literally never seen before tactical jump was implemented because they were genuinely garbage. Over the course of the game’s entire history, I can count the number of times we’ve seen BCs prior to Tac Jump’s introduction on one hand and still have fingers left over.

Sure, but for this to actually be the case the BC would need to be redesigned from the ground up.

It’s already a scouting issue, nothing more.

Early BCs, Zerg can basically already do this. Against Mass BC it’s harder, but still doable; by that time though you’ve already got the counter up.

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49

I love when they go BCS free win city. I think the issue with Bc is they suck on no upgrades but late game on 3/3 in like 4v4 they scary af.

1 Like
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Problem with Terran they do a lot over lap and well rounded.

Why one risk loosing multiple bc that has no escape or ability to hit. When can just drop marines do close same damage.

On top of it any unit gets to counter marines gets nerfed, Banes, fg.

Not really best way gets use and be more tied into prep and skill. Instead blindly jump its more recall location. You can set it but beacon range 2 of location.

Then when clicked again it spawn at that location.

This means bc have be in spot prior and it can’t jump other 5 that was made and hiding in corner either.

When I was talking about scouting Terran can block u scouting and boom 5 bc dropped on top of you. This way they can be blocked defensive .

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Main problem if you don’t prep for it, it’s gg.

It be somewhat ok if we have unblockable scout but Zerg has not its easy denied. Which almost most vulnerable race out there.

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