Adepts were so strong in beta, i remember when polt started playing LOTV beta late… because he was playing HOTS tournaments. He started with no mmr and play legit diamond league players. 1 base adept drop was so strong, that it had 100% win rate if executed correctly. He looked after stream on match history and he had 12 loses from 16 games !!!
After that, there were many adept changes, like -1 dmg, or making them have less hp and more shields, none of them did really anything to fix the problem!!!
Damage, or hp, or shields was never problem! But as usual, Blizzard doing changes - which don’t matter! Problem with adepts: shade cooldown is so short! You can shade out almost instantly, after you shaded in! So you can have them on 2 places at the same time.
Even pros struggle vs adepts shade in, it takes so much more apm to hold, than to do. Because protoss can cancel shade, but if you don’t allocate some units for place they are shading to, you gonna lose economy, but if he cancels! Than you don’t have enough units to fight them where they are and they keep shading between bases and there is very little you can do.
If zerg doesn’t open with overlord speed, or doesn’t have 2 overlords. It is coinflipp. You have to get roach warren early as possible, or you won’t hold. Or spines! But Zerg players, usually put their overlord on bottom of ramp, to scout for 2 adepts and when they move out and than can’t scout main.
I am not actually Zerg player btw…
Adepts should build longer, or shade should take more cooldown and than maybe they could get that +1 dmg back! Also in TvP adept can cancel cc and Protoss gets huge lead and momentum in early game! While Protoss gets natural faster than Terran! Which is not how game is supposed to work. Naturals should be at the same time!
They can’t nerf adepts or change adepts. Their precious 50% winrates is based on protoss adept cheese. Can’t remember last time protoss won without adept cheese in pvz.
Without adept cheese blizzard will see that protoss stands no chance at all against zerg. And since blizzard wont nerf the master race at all blizzard will keep the adept cheese in game, and call it balanced.
Its just terrible terrible balance. The game is balanced around adepts cheesing zerg out before the game even begins.
Adepts should not nerfed because as Zyphor said PvZ will be straight up unwinnable. I feel like adepts introduce most annoyance in the PvP. Wish they could be removed and everything rebalanced but this just won’t happen.
Nerfing cooldown about 1-2 second wouldn’t probably make adepts make completely useless, even it would be easier to deal with. While Protoss has many 2-3 base all ins and Zerg’s queens and banes were seriously nerfed. I agree adept cheese is definitely powerful tool against Zerg, as it is hard to scout and can hit hard unexpected.
Adepts are fine. In PVP they aren’t a problem because protoss players position buildings to block them shade and put units in position. Terran does the same and adept builds are non-existent in PVT. For reasons that make no sense, zerg doesn’t trying to block adept movement amongst their bases and pay a price. Even still it’s easy to hold modern iterations of glaive builds without blocking off access with buildings if you scout, get roaches early (delay lair a bit) and put a spine at the 3rd base. I think its called the DRG defense or something but regardless it works.
Whilst I do believe the majority of protoss units could be buffed a bit due to their overspecialization and meager performance for cost, adepts are not one of them and basically are fine for the cost.
Hmm I play diamond 1-masters 3 depending on the race/account in SC2. Maybe I’m a noob. I’ve only been playing for less than a year I think.
I would also point out that I semi pro in dawn of war and dawn of war soulstorm being top 10 on that ladder and playing in overseas competitions and was top 100 in a number of command and conquer tiberium wars.
That may be but still exits a compromise that would decrease the initial power of adept after Glaive (to help zerg) and increase the final power of Adept to help Protoss.
Glaive gives 25% boost of fire-rate.
Second upgrade (put a name for that) further increases the fire-rate to extra 30% and makes possible to commit (on top of cancel that already exists) the shade on demand.
This would reduce the stress on Zerg initially but improve the Adept in Mid-Late-Game.
But no one would hold the breath for the Moron-Team to do something more complicated as +1 Damage or -2 HP…
Laughs in Zerg.
Its true that Terran is vulnerable at that point, toss is vulnerable once tanks and stim and drops are out, terran is vulnerable when storm is out, toss is vulnerable when ghosts are out, an endgame terran comp might struggle with warp prisms spamming lots in periferal bases, but terran also has excellent harrass with liberators, nukes, and speedy MMM all of which can multiprong and escape.
Not hating or anything, its just there’s an exchange of blows in the matchup.
Good post overall- just here’s something, who not make adepts good for something after the earlygame?
Maybe give adepts a second twilight council upgrade that requires a Templar archives(Khalai gang)?
Cheesing with adepts in PvZ is difficult- if you don’t cause massive damage or keep all your adepts alive, you are screwed. Queens and roaches will absolutely wreck them. The only zerg unit adepts beat in straight up fights are… drones, or lings(if you have double the investment).
I wish I could use adepts well without literally being Zest or Neeb skillz, I wish I could use them past the 10 minute mark, too. The punishment is pretty nasty if you lose them, and trading with workers is not always enough to secure a temporary lead, even. Every other low end infantry has some utility past the 10 minute mark, even roaches, marauders, sentries.
Obviously adepts are not ‘bad’- they are used often and won with often. It just feels like walking on a knife’s edge. The thread title is a good sentiment
