Well that’s easy since Pig was super addicted to cyclone hellion comps and now they’re trash. I didn’t know he did a marine only challenge though, last time I checked he had a new series where he showed people how to die to skytoss with hydras.
Because its the step to pro level where its important to minmax everything. Its about every detail.
From my experience i didnt experience any real difference in difficulty between all 3 races up until m2. I obviously cant talk about the difficulty of all 3 races above 5k because ive never been there with all 3 races but there are like only a handful of people who can actually do that.
BUT we can look at matches above 5k and like harstem assess so many mistakes. You dont have to be over 5k to spot mistakes in their play. Starcraft is a hard game, you will eventually make mistakes. And based on their mistakes and how they play we can say naaaah the difficulty of controlling the mmm is not there yet. Another thing is that mech surely still works in those mmr ranges, this happens when you turn pro. Meaning you have to play bio and be very good with it.
And now you gonna hit me with “ehhhh but you dont have a metric or evidence”.
All i can say is:
the same way you use authority of pro players i can use my authority as someone who got m2 with all races, meaning in my experience and authority i can say i did not face any real difficulty in playing terran.
the pros were also not using any metric or any concrete explanation or argument at all. (also statements of pros have to be understood in thei context; without context we dont know if that was humorous or out of rage or whatnot → using showtimes statement in a short tourny interview after 6 years is such a no no and pretty pathetic. But also there he means terran is hardest [at pro play]. He surely wouldnt say “i cant practise vs terran because terran is a hard race and we can see that based on distribution in silver league”. He didnt have practise partners at the time (btw he now has heromarine and clem, that are both better than showtime and some/many koreans; why is that now? Why is the only protoss he could practise with maxpax? because protoss is too hard?)
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I mean I got m2 with Protoss as my top ever and M1 with Terran. I don’t submit anecdotes like this because no one would find them compelling. I just never really tried with Zerg, so there’s that.
And while I do take particular exception to what the pros say to inform my opinions, you can forgive me if I’m hesitant to “take your word for it” which is essentially what you’re telling me to do.
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youtube. com/watch?v=XxP8wrqr1fM
Add this to the list of players who have no idea what they’re talking about. Artosis also made a video about it recently, bet he also has no idea what he’s talking about.
It’s like you take every quote, from every expert on the matter, and add “but only at the pro level” to it.
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siege tanks, sorta-liberators, sorta-battlecruisers
ravagers, swarm hosts, brood lords, ultralisks
immortals, colossus, disruptors, tempests
cannons only have 7 range so there’s plenty of options for safely knocking them down for each race
Assuming you mean a Carrier - Tempest - High Templar blob,
ghost + viking,
ultralisk + corruptor, hydralisk + viper
high templar + void ray? i’m actually not sure
I’m happy to agree with you that an idealized blob of mostly advanced protoss air units is extremely hard to deal with which is why you’re somewhat forced into smashing it before it starts
protoss with 10 carriers is not particularly different than terran with 10 battlecruisers though. and in both cases, if they’re building them en masse out of lots of production, that means that at the moment they’re building, they don’t have much else, so you can wash over them with your standing forces in the ~40 seconds it takes even if they’re double-chrono’d.
a. which / who?
b. you did not see “someone who just sits behind cannons and shield batteries”; you saw a player who went out on the map with adepts or stalkers and made sure to prevent enemy pressure from assailing them until they had enough workers to mine enough to not be horribly behind, or defend them while teching.
[…]
The question is flawed the same way that “When will you stop beating your wife?” is. It presupposes a component of its answer in the question.
This is because the answer is “Based on the given evidence, Terran is not more difficult than any other race.”
Because it’s obvious from context that that’s part of their opinion, but you’re abstracting it to mean something they didn’t say.
But you would do that, wouldn’t you?
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So you rather listen to Pros who dont have the slightest Idea about whats going on in Low Level Play and dont really See or Play Low Level Play ?
Rather than me who actively casts and Coaches noobs and who can Play any Race to m2?
Interesting. When its about you and Pros its valid but when its about me its only anectodical and Not authority.
Do you have Proof that they dont mean pro Play ?
But anyway. This discussion is derailed since you rather want to Argue about what pros might think or Not and you dont use factual Arguments anymore. Pretty lame tbh.
“If not across the board”
What evidence? Literally not one single metric favors your conclusion.
Is it? What he said was “that’s why there’s so few at the top level.” If you were to assume anything, you might assume that it’s difficult to get IN to the top level. Not that it’s more difficult AT the top level. Your daddy even said he doesn’t think there’s an issue until 6500. 6500! TY was at 5800 and won how many GSLs?
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Do you have proof that they do?
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There is it 
Whats more likely? Pros referring to us noobs or at their level of play? They dont care about us at all. They dont know how its to be like us.
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Saying it has the most potential at the top level is mutually exclusive with saying it’s more difficult than at a lower level?
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The answer is “It isn’t.”
“If not across the board” presumes that it is hardest at some point.
The average ranking of the top 50% of players is equal. If Terran was the hardest at any point in that range, that wouldn’t be the case - There would be a cliff somewhere, but all we see are stairs.
The average ranking of the bottom 50% of players is also equal. So Terran can’t be the hardest there, either.
Ideally, there’d be the average ranking of middle 50% to make sure there isn’t something odd there.
In order to be difficult to get into a given place, it must be difficult at that place or at one step below it - That getting those last 20 points takes as much effort as the previous 2500 did.
So I’m kind of baffled as to your understanding of sentence you have written here.
No, these are two entirely divorced statements and attempting to link them is foolish.
Which is why Sentry didn’t, and I’m sure you know that, but yet this comment implies you think they did.
Sweetheart, I already told you. Brevity.
Yeah ofc but now go find me a pro who says: “terran is even much harder on noob level” or “terran is the hardest race based on their distribution in silver league” or something along those lines.
Its fascinating you want proof, context, thresholds and so on from ME, but not from PROS. Im suspecting its because you rather want general (but useless) statements that support you rather than nuanced answers that might oppose your view.
I shared my profile with you as proof. Can you please link me your profile? I want to have concrete proof too.
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You cherry picked ONE of the quotes, then stretched his quote to mean only above only applied to the top percentile, which nothing in his tone nor the content REMOTELY suggested.
Yeah, you’re right, I should just take your word, that of a biased peer, for it over that of an unbiased expert. This is literally the long form of “trust me, bro.”
Talking to you, you can never admit anything is more difficult about Terran. Not the late game, not the macro, not the multitasking, not the scouting… Literally everything Terran somehow has an advantage over. Why on earth would I trust the opinions of someone like that?
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Pros are “unbiased experts”? 
Also, why dont you ask them in detail? Why is your whole argumentation based on completly vague statements? Why dont you question the pros and ask them what they specifically mean?
The question at hand is: even if terran is harder at top pro level, is this noticeable at lower level?
Your stance is: yes, its noticeable because silver league is flooded with terran (very unreasonable because you dont have a single point to argue that)
My stance is: The races have no significant difference in difficulty below very high level (reasonable because of various reasons: it would have been adressed already, one could easily identify that in an example, one would see actual difference in higher level of play (plat and above), top 50% and bottom 50% is even between races (meaning they achieve as much) and so on.
Then why did he mention 2 pro players?
The case is pretty easy: If i get asked questions about balance i will make it perfectly clear if i mean pro level or my level (way below pro). Almost anyone i know does that too. Pros dont do that. Why? Easy, because their level of play is pro level. And neither do they care or do they know casual level.
And this is the thing you dont get in your argumentation: They are experts at sc2 but they arent experts of casual play. They know the state of balance for the exact people that its meant for. But they dont know the state of balance for people below.
I asked for the link to your profile. Where is it?
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So you have no counterargument? Good! Great.
Leave?
Because that was incredibly brief. You just don’t want to engage.
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Showtime saying that a race other than his is showing his bias?
It’s not, I used many metrics as well… Do you have the memory of a Goldfish?
I have, on stream, they don’t mince words, they say literally the opposite to you. Terran is the most difficult UNTIL the pro level, whereby Protoss is actually seen as the most difficult (at least to be consistent with).
Because he was talking about the micro potential that’s available.
Rest is TLDR. Brevity, people.
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Sweetie, that was two pages.
Um, make me? The hell? lol.
Just shush, little girl.
What’s funny is that he said there was a lot of mystery and anticipation as to who I was and what I looked like, and that he was disappointed to find out what I looked like, but he hasn’t found out what I look like. He thinks he does, but the dude doesn’t have a clue. He doesn’t know who I am, either. The story is just beginning. In comedy there is this thing called a reversal of expectations. So I wanted to create the character that was polar opposite to what everyone expected me to be. There were a variety theories ranging from a dude who gets hammered slamming beer to blacksmiths to bossfights to a pimp (pimping was an actual theory someone floated, lmao). Never did they expect a mild mannered man with a soft voice in a suit. I got some truly legendary reactions from a variety of people. Livibee’s was one of the best. It was flipping hilarious.
On a side note, I keep running into this 4.4k terran player who always whines after the game about bowlcut. Multiple times they message me & say “I can’t believe you’d publicly admit to being bowlcut”. It’s like, so what. What’s the problem here. I told some egotistical nerds that their favorite video game was easy. Cry me a river to water the field where I grow my cares, of which I have none. I was perplexed though. I mean, who could honestly care that much about this. Then it dawned on me. This person has a feminine temperament and they are in the mmr range of & play the same race as zombiegrub. What a coincidence. This person legitimately thought that you can’t say something if it might offend someone else. First, there is no way to know what might offend someone or not because to find that out you’d have to ask them about it which is the same thing as just saying it. Secondly most people don’t even know what it is they want. Their limbic brain is the one in control. It decides what is offensive and the rest of their brain justifies the decision. Translation, they aren’t consciously aware of their feelings – their feelings happen and they react to them after the fact. Basically this person expects me to mind-read and if you can’t mind read then you’re supposed to be a second class citizen who keeps his mouth shut for fear of reprimand. This person’s mindset is straight out of 1984. We’re talking pathological levels of fear here. Was it zombiegrub or someone else? We’ll never know. But they did have an extremely feminine temperament aka you shouldn’t do or say anything that might make someone else mad. That’s literally how angsty 14 year old girls view the world.
The way I view the world is that if you don’t have any control over your own emotions, then other people will have control over you. Your emotions are a weakness that allows psychopaths and narcissists to force you into compliance via gaslighting and emotional manipulation. I think we have a moral duty to be silly and rude and offensive specifically to mock and undermine those who would attempt to gaslight us into submission. Not only is it fun, it’s a moral duty.
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But you dont tho. You say that you do but the only “Metric” you use is mmr/Game whatever the heck that means. I mean what ? You get +1 mmr per Game ? On average ? Always? A Player with 1k Games has 1k mmr ? With 10k Games He has 10k mmr ? Or when do you get Like 0.01 mmr per Game ?
Mmr/Game is so vague and undefined you can Just rely Back to what you actually mean: average mmr.
With both “metrics” you have the Same Problem of distribution while you have No Baseline how Things “should” be because of uncontrolled and unequal income.
Yesnt. Questioning someone of a Race and ask him how hard the Race is is pretty biased. Its Like you are saying terran is hardest. Or wheasypeasy or another known t Forum whiners. What do you think will batzy answer If you ask him?
With Showtime its pretty easy. At that time there was a Lack of good t Players. He Said in His opinion its because t is hardest to get top pro (i Put His words that way because its the only explanation that makes Sense in this context. Other meanings Like “terran is so hard to get 5k to” is pretty nonsense as He is directly referring to why He cant practise Well enough vs korean t
But right now we dont have a Lacking number of pro terrans in Europe. What changed ? Terran Not the hardest Race anymore ?
Then give me a Screenshot or Link. So Showtime didnt have practise Partners because terran is hardest below pro Level but easiest at pro? Wow that doesnt make Sense. But nice try.
As Said it makes the Most Sense that If anything terran is only Harder from semi.pro to pro and after that obviously due to consitency better than protoss. But Not zerg. Hence the Premier wins.
Yeah at pro Play. they got reaper nerfed because of Micro. Pro Players. Not Casual People. Are casual people able to pull the same off with those reapers?
Where is it?
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