Whoever made skytoss a thing should be ashamed

General Discussion
21

I am nowhere near a pro level, lol.

2 Likes
22

You want anectodical evidence ? Fine. The Last Time i Played zerg Kinda serious was 6 years ago.

I dont know how to Play at all with Them. After Not actually playing actively for a Long Time and Just Play some coop etc i decided to Play some zerg

I Played 25 Matches where i got placed from 4200 mmr and went Up to 4600 mmr and down again to 4300 mmr. Beating all sorts of much better Players. Even beating a 4800 mmr Player, beating 4500 protoss and zerg in macro and so on. In the end i lost some very Important Points to some smurfs and got even sniped by a teammate of someone i Beat. You can Look it Up on nephest. Someone on pla2n sniped me :smiley:

This is nuts. I Played Like really bad. Not knowing a build Order, Sometimes even banebusting and completly failing but still winning in macro despite being clinically dead for the Most Part of the Match.

I did almost the Same with terran. Everytime on that Same Level with protoss i Instantly lose because of 1 oversight. 1 Mistake and its all gone. But with terran and zerg i can Go from Mistake to Mistake to Mistake and still be able to win. This doesnt feel remotely fair :smiley: terran and zerg are both much more forgiveable and much Stronger races. And again you can See me Rocking every Race on Masters. Im Not some whiner. Im backing Up my View with Results.

But as i have assessed in the other topic i think its because of Skill Expression of mechanics. I do have good mechanics. And the other Point is obviously how fragile the Race is. While protoss is obviously very fragile its hard to actually defeat a zerg or a terran. You know ? Never basetrade a terran. Never try to kill a terran because their Defensive mechanics and their ranged high dps Units will shred you :smiley:

People Argue about If Carriers are too good or too easy Not realising you have the Advantage vs protoss for 90% of the Game. This Made me so sad that i Just Switched races. And it worked. Playing macro protoss feels so unfair. All your Units are highly specialised, slow ans vulnerable. Obviously cheesing and doing all ins is easy but thats with all races :smiley:

In short: without practise without knowledge im (currently) better with my zerg than with my protoss. And i Mained and practised protoss for over 10 years now and have practically 0 Idea of zerg. This is nuts :smiley:

1 Like
23

Not particularly, but you were falling all over yourself to agree with Eliwan’s presentation with anecdotes very recently.

1 Like
24

Then why do you come Up with it? In my proven experience (you can Look my Profile Up on nephest) t and z are much much much easier to Play macro than p. I reached 4.6k without even trying with both races and know near next to 0 with both races. And No it was Not Just a fluke. I Played plenty of Matches with both races to be Sure its Not Just my protoss that dragged my mmr Up and then Stop playing because i would drop.

25

Sentry giving up after reaching the point in the bellcurve where it’s still plebs versing other plebs. The reality is if you wanted to go to the higher echelons of sc2 we know you’d choose Protoss. :slight_smile:

26

After i laddered a bit with zerg and got m2 and then m3 again i thought hey maybe i give protoss a try.

I trashed a 4.8k-4.9k tryhard terran with 1000 games in this season so hard he congratulated me in a very offensive style to the pride month. He flew all buildings to different corners and built ccs and other buildings everywhere on the map after 15 minutes ingame. It was basically peak bourne in his prime.

It was my first and only protoss match in this season. Hahaha get rekt.

27

I will never understand how people can balance whine about a race without first playing it themselves. How can that be taken seriously?

1 Like
28

I love that clown crunch is trying to get gm with all three races. He easily achieved it with Protoss thanks to cannon rushing and blink stalker micro. But the dude is getting absolutely wrecked with zerg. Yeah, marines splits are difficult vs banelings but have you ever tried splitting mutas vs parasitic bomb?

Watching him do mutalisk micro, it’s obvious he’s overloaded. It’s similar to his 2 prong medivac harass that he does with terran. But terrans boost the medivacs to a safe space, unload them, and let them sit for a moment to heal. With mutas you can’t do that. You have to be constantly hitting with them, and he clearly struggles with that. His mutalisks just fly around doing nothing. You can’t do that because every second he mines more gas & gets closer to hive. The window to make mutas work is insanely narrow.

Just look at how poorly this fight sequence goes:

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2183598677?t=19693s

To quote him: “Yikes. Even that sandwich wasn’t enough.”

Yep. You gotta get him out of position with the nydus & include vipers or you won’t beat players like Snake or Meomaika. It’s a 4 hotkey army at least. In addition to the hotkeys, you have to do several moves in advance to make sure the manuever works. You need at least 2 overseers in sensitive locations to spot for the nydus, so you need a plan for how to get those in undetected. You have to charge the vipers. You gotta find a spot where spores won’t wreck your overseers. So on and so forth.

Even better:

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2183598677?t=19952s

“HOLY !@#$ DUDE, I AM ACTUALLY TRIGGERED!”

The dude thought he could just scan to have vision instantly of lurkers burrowed. Nope as Zerg you have to plan ahead to make detection & you have to micro manage that detection to have it in the right place & keep it alive. Zerg is definitely the hardest race.

Same thing happens in TvZ with ghosts. No detection on accident and your whole army is gone to snipes.

1 Like
29

I did. I found nothing.

1 Like
30

You went to nephest. Typed in “sentry” and did click on the first result? I think its a lame excuse for not knowing what to search for at all.

imgur .com/a/qrU42Zu

31

Right, because who could possibly wrap their head around that.

Link is broken for me.

1 Like
32

If you’re curious as to what actually the pros say, here’s a list of things I can think of off the top of my head:

BeastyQT: Terran is the hardest race. (That was all he said, there was more but it didn’t really add any context)

Showtime (you have this quote)

Rotterdam: “Yes, Terran takes the most micro… Yes, Terran is the most difficult. (while rolling his eyes - he was tired of hearing about as I am of talking about it).” He also went on to call of us a bunch of whiners lol

David Kim (this was almost a decade ago, so grain of salt):

SC2 is balanced at the top level. We’d like to be able to make it for everyone, but like Terran, it probably won’t be as balanced for them. (This one quote I’m not entirely sure I’m on the money about, again, almost a decade ago).

Polt: Terran has by far the hardest control, but [the control] also has the most potential. Like, remember when Byun was good? He was multiple levels better than even Maru.

More specific stuff:

Uthermal: Terran late game is pretty tragic (minus the Orbital - which, yeah, Orbitals are pretty nuckin futz)

Crank: In the late game you can win. Against Protoss, probably not, but against Zerg, if you have really good control, you can win.

Demuslim: Terran has the worst scouting. I think that’s one of the main issues with the race…

2 Likes
33

Oh sure sure.

Can someone competent confirm? Because if i delete the space before the dot, i can open it just fine.

So you did find it then?

in case you didnt:

sc2pulse. nephest. com/sc2/?type=character&id=1651884&m=1#player-stats-mmr

But the link is broken too i guess? There are spaces after the dots because you cannot post links.

So mostly anything is either vague or refers to pro play? Interesting. Just as i thought.

They dont say: terran is the hardest because we see the average mmr that gets dragged down by casual silver players.

Or: Im sure because silver is 50% terran, terran is the hardest race.

Directly refering to pro play. lmao.

1 Like
34

I’m just glad that Batz has taking the reigns of Crusader by being the #1 BerryCrunch fan. Is someone trying to get those juicy hosts? :stuck_out_tongue:

IMO drops are better than nydus at out position plays in ZvZ since the unload is so slow when you’re dealing with ling ultra. Decent map for drops but it’s also really easy to split that map. But yeah, he definitely needed vipers if he wanted to actually trade into that amount of lurkers.

35

How dare you ignoring my post?!
You also ignored my post where i bragged still winning with akrij vs m1 toss.

36

He’s my #1 ladder opponent unfortunately. I hate playing against him too. Basically tech rush zerg styles are giga trash vs terrans who turtle and backstab. On my alt, I haven’t lost a game vs him once. On my meme accounts, it’s literally impossible to beat him. The worst part is he actually takes pride in the victories. It’s like, congrats, you beat swarm host mutalisk with a race that is designed to hard counter those units in every way, shape and form.

Yeah, don’t put lings in a nydus for that reason. 1 ultra can delete a mineral line and no amount of zerglings or queens are going to stop it. It forces him to respond with his main army hotkey and that usually means he leaves his lurkers burrowed but moves his roach hydra away so the lurkers are more exposed. Part of the reason berry lost that fight is because he didn’t get the ultras onto the lurkers asap. You can’t waste time killing the roach hydra. You have to stutter step onto the lurkers. So you nydus the main with 1 ultra, confirm he moves with a changeling, setup the surround and blinding cloud the lurkers in the center. It’s a free win, but he’s used to smooth-brain terran play that has a range or efficiency advantage. Zerg doesn’t have advantages. You have to create them via multitasking. Zerg is behind by default at all times. It’s just the reality of the current balance scenario. So you either leverage a multitasking advantage or you kiss your mmr goodbye.

37

Oh gosh. I just can’t believe you level such an insult at me. GASP! I’m such a victim, obviously this means you’re losing the argument. (The site doesn’t work in my country, doofus).

This is vague?

Showtime’s wasn’t either, honestly.

Again. AT WHAT MMR THRESHOLD IS TERRAN MORE DIFFICULT, IF NOT ACROSS THE BOARD???!!

1 Like
38

I feel like these 2 are very seperate statements.
Also, no vpn?!

So, did you find me on nephest by typing in “sentry”? Or did you get my link to work?
Cant believe i actually had to send you the instructions.

Yes.

Because you could ask them exactly this:

They most likely tell you: if you are silver your race is not the problem. you just suck.

maybe watch is it imba or do i suck.

You have like 200 videos by now where hastem tells people from 2k mmr to 6k mmr to suck it because they sometimes do completly moronic stuff that has nothing to do with balance or difficulty at all. and he showcases that. hes also known for saying t plays itself.

so, you have some vague quotes from pros where no one knows whats really meant. i present you a bazillion of videos of harstem telling people to grow up and take responsibility. wow we have such a good argument right here. not actually discussing arguments but screaming statements from authoritys on top of our lungs. that is very convĂ­ncing, indeed.

its funny that you on one hand say that every argument that is not backed up by a metric or cold hard proof is worth nothing but you put all your eggs in the basket of “but showtime said…” and also Beastyqt said " Terran is the hardest race"

You know what?! That convinced me. Beastyqt said terran is the hardest race. You won. You finally won :smiley:

1 Like
39

I found it now, I’m proud of you?

When literally every video is the same thing, it’s not a real answer to the question. Some of the things were imba and were changed and he still decided to make fun of every single player.

Notice I did so every time you use “But Eliwan said…” to argue with me. I don’t present them as evidence, metrics are evidence. But when you start talking about how my opinion is unpopular because 2 beta Protoss players agree with you, that’s the idiocy I can’t let slide.

1 Like
40

Glad you figured it out all by yourself

But if the question is: is it imba, then the most likely answer is “no”. And if you ask the question 500 times, the answer will be nearly 500 times no.

Some things were changed because of design or playstyle. Things that are “not fun”. Not everything got patched to make things more even. Or did you forget what happend in 2019? Also, is the idk tripple nerf of widow mines really needed?

There is miro tho.

It was a mere reminder to you that you are pretty much alone with your argument that you can read something about difficulty if you use avg mmr. I even linked you some reddit posts asking why majority of low level players pick terran and they basically all agreed its because of campaign, design and familiarity. Not a single person said: Its because its the hardest race therefore silver terrans cant advance because the race is too hard.

And the evidence tells us that those terrans in silver suck. Dont they?

1 Like