Who Will Be Next Commander?

Co-op Missions Discussion
41

No, it doesn’t mean that Ouros would be Zeratul 2.0. That is apart of my point. Ouros can also have different colors than Zeratul. No issue. There can still be different mechanics.

Zurvan is Primal but can still be made different from Dehaka. As an example: give Zurvan a feeding mechanic. Place Feeding pits in front of Zurvan and allow drones/new units to go into these pits to harvest food for Zurvan. This food supply could fill a new resource (similar to Solarite or Mandate). This resource can be used for Zurvan’s Top Bar. Also, no Pack Leaders. That is quite different I’d say.

Edit: I just checked Ihan-rii do have Pylons. Maybe there can still be a reason for them to be used? Less about the power field and more about supply? Double supply per pylon?

42

Actually, speaking of colors… what would Selendis’s or Rohana’s color be?

43

We might have to think of Donny’s color instead…

44

the point is Ihan-rii don’t use energy fields. So the technology would be the same.

Primals have various Packs, Zurvan can easly command his own Pack and have Zerus skin with the Campaign Primals.
The Pylons for Ihan-rii I think are like the Overlord for Primals just “decorations”

Selendis I think can have blue color, Rohana… tuscany? (since brown is removed from co-op) her is from Velatir Tribe, right? The Velatir has brown color in SC1 (or was the Velari? I ever confuse these two…) and without brown they can use tuscany (or can add a new TC)

45

Isn’t Artanis blue?

Like I said; the power fields wouldn’t be there. The Pylons would just be there for supply. Maybe double supply? Or maybe instead they have a different function all together? Maybe having units near one of these Pylons restores health per sec?

Something unique to Ouros could be he could spawn his own Void Thrashers (Top Bar?) or even Void Shards/Slivers. But Ouros’s Shards/Slivers do damage to enemies in a radius?

46

What do you think of Zurvan having a feeding mechanic/resource?

47

Nope, Artanis is teal. The colors right now are:

TERRAN
-Raynor: Blue
-Swann: Orange
-Nova: Teal
-Han & Horner: Rose
-Tychus: Tuscany
-Mengsk: Red/Brown

ZERG
-Kerrigan: Magenta
-Zagara: Dark Blue
-Abathur: Yellow
-Stukov: Light purple
-Dehaka: Blue grey
-Stetmann: Orange

PROTOSS
-Artanis: Teal
-Vorazun: Purple
-Karax: Yellow
-Alarak: Dark red
-Talandar: Orange
-Zeratul: Aquamarine

Could be an idea. But still I doubt they will re-use an already used faction/skinset, to be honest, I higly doubt they will even use Ourus. Tassadar maybe. Protoss race already have better candidates: Selendis, Rohana, Tassadar, Blizzard in a interview even mentioned the possibility of make Aldaris as a commander. I doubt they will… but would be cool.

Yhea, the feeding mechanic is really good, unique and fit well for Zurvan.

48

Right… Artanis is Teal. You would think he’d be Blue. I guess to match his Hero color in Brood Wars? Whatever the case; it is still odd.

Aside from Selendis having Golden Age skins and the Golden Armada (Air focus); what else would you give her to stand out?

49

I suggest that she could have mutiple locked color like Mengsk and his Dogs of War, if the WC theme has set into motion.

IMO, the feeding mechanic should be considered as icing, not the cake. Since what mechanic that I think would truly define how Zurvan works (eps meant to the ground that Dehaka’s design had failed to address) is the one and only quote from the character-

No allegiance but to self.

  • Zurvan player control Zurvan and can build an army consist of Primal Zerg.

  • There are some conditions which will cause Primal Zerg to attack Zurvan.

  • Zurvan can feed on enemy remains and PZ, gain power. PZ can kill Zurvan, going berserk.

Well, for now, these are the concepts I can think of.

  • Selendis as a hero unit.

  • Corrupted units like the Amon’s Armada Carrier.

  • Global map presence Mothership.

50

I don’t like the idea of a Commander’s forces turning on them. Imagine playing a Brutal Mutation and having to fight your own units as well. Doesn’t sound like fun. More frustrating than fun. Remember, most mechanics need to be enjoyed by the player. It’s more important than even lore.

Corrupted units don’t really work if you’re using them against Amon. Corrupted means Amon controls them. Selendis as a Hero unit is fine and a Mothership is fine. However, those would be “icing on the cake” as it were.

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51

I respect your opinion though I believe this concept can work if implemented with careful adjustments.

I would consider the PZ concept is as punishing as Alarak currently does. And I think that will be good.

That’s the whole point. (Original concept without details) Corruption will alter Selenids’ air units- harmful effect kicks in while simultaneously giving them completely different roles and functions.

My lore explanation of Void Corruption is that the pilots are freed from Amon’s grips after Salvation while the starships themselves are unfortunately affected by void energy which can lead to corruption occurred.

52

After reading your thread; I’m sorry I can’t support it. I not only dislike the Corruption idea; but the Warp Conduits and temporary ground forces. I’m not even going to say anything more about the temporary ground forces other than I can’t stand the idea.

Warp Conduits idea has issues. Getting to them (mainly on certain maps like Vermillion Problem); seems to much hassle to be worth it. It has the annoyance of Zeratul’s Artifact gathering with less benefit. Not a fun idea in my opinion.

I can’t see Selendis allowing her forces to remain effected by corruption regardless of benefits. With what she and her forces have been through; it’s not likely.

Selendis needs mechanics that fit her better and are fun to use. The mechanics you suggested (no offense) don’t work with either in my opinion.

53

Golden Age is still majority Templar. I don’t see Selendis really using Nerazim Golden Age units.

Even though I wouldn’t like her to use Golden Age skin set I think she could have Nerazim units, she has them in WoL and she definitely commands Stalkers in the begining of LOTV.

Why couldn’t Blizzard just make a model usable for selection? Because they didn’t for Han? It made sense with Han to use her communication screen because that is how Han and Horner work together. They aren’t in the same room. If they want Ji’nara I don’t see why they wouldn’t/couldn’t make a model for the selection screen.

Nah, you are just being naive. I have been playing SC2 for years and using the editor for the same duration. Also I have 5 years of experience in editing SC2 models. From Nova Covert Ops on I’ve noticed the downfall of the quality in models (Lot’s of people got fired …). They never made a custom cinematic model since that time (Probably except Tychus’ minigun), all the portraits for new skins are kitbashes made up from their unit models or different already existing models (Have you ever seen Ihan-rii Immortal portrait ? And read the description of the model ? It’s supposed to be a walking sarcophagus with dead warrior inside, yet they used recolored Immortal portrait, which is very much alive. Just because they are unable to make a new portrait). So I’m pretty sure the reason why they put Han on screen was because they didn’t have the people or money or time to make the rest of her body. Same could apply to Ji’nara. But that still doesn’t prevent them from using her as a commander, she would be in a screen, it would be weird, but I guess still better than nothing.

Raynor and Swann are the same faction. Kerrigan and Abathur are the same faction as well.

Well Raynor and Swann are from the same faction, tho Swann could be a subfaction and could receive a new skin set (something Kel-morian looking). Abathur and Kerrigan are both part of the Swarm, BUT Swarm is actually really close to Daelaam in one thing, it’s not one faction, it’s composed of Broods,with each brood being different. Only reason why it’s not visible on models is because it would be way too much work to make dozens of different models for each unit. However I would really like Abathur to get his own skin set based on his appearance. His console and toxic nests already bear resemblance to Abathur himself with their coloring.

You use what you have. Ihan-rii are underused.

Well they actually made a whole new Protoss faction just to give Zeratul a difference from Vorazun and that’s an official dev statement. So it seems they are really trying not to use same faction twice, tho I personally wouldn’t mind if they did.

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54

I never read that statement. I wouldn’t be surprised if they change their minds though.

55

What kind of Primal Unit model will you use? HotS?

Weakness within each commander should be based on values (like low health units like Raynor’s Marines etc).
I don’t know how your forces will turn on Zurvan but I can see it very annoying than difficult even with high risk and high return.
Things like this are reserved for mutation.

Corruption mechanic sounds highly complicated and very difficult to master.
Players dislike their units getting both advantages and disadvantages especially when the change happens randomly as you warp across. Having a trait like corruption which you cannot control is problematic for commanders, you need to be in control. This can be problematic in mutations where your attentions are too divided.
I admit Kerrigan’s Mutalisks are difficult but at least you can control them and make sound strategy to compensate their weakness (Zergling distractions, Splitting, Immobilsation wave etc).
The inevitable trait is another problem if it really does what you intend, its a double edged sword that could make you win or lose.
This trait is more like a mutation than an actual ability.

Having structures like Warp Conduit to appear in random location isn’t a good idea. Zeratul’s Artifact may spawn randomly but they are collected and it’s effect is immediately activated, pure and simple. But if a structure that produce vital reinforcements has to be found on random location and then lay a pylon next to it to use it, it becomes very difficult to use.

My advise is for the units, you can start with base units like normal scouts then apply a choice (upgrade) that may decide their strength (Shouldn’t be too hard Selendis has 130 supplies).

Have to make Warp Conduits have them manually built and if you want to have some condition, you could make a Warp conduit activate with 3 pylons or 1 Nexus near it or limi the numbers of Warp Conduits.

56

2021 ain’t looking good based on that trajectory.

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58

It’s a shame that RTS have been in decline over the past 10 years. Otherwise, I would’ve REALLY liked to have seen a Super Smash Bros.-style RTS game. And do gotta say, Sc2 should stay in its own swim lane and not delve into other franchises.

If we do have crossovers, would’ve liked to have seen stuff from Halo. Halo Wars 1 & 2 were RTS titles, so some of the heavy lifting is already done. And the races do correlate:
Terran = UNSC
Protoss = The Covenent
Zerg = The Flood
Xel’Naga = Forerunners

59

not a crossover my man. a metaphor

tho yea a crossover RTS would be cool

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60

I respect that some of the playerbase might consider this mechanic as very difficult and annoying, mainly on several particular maps. But unfortunately, I’m one of the players who see Abathur in Vermillion Problem, rushing UE as “fun”.

On top of that, I’m also those kinds of enthusiastic people who will actually set the exact location of each WCs (once I finally have the skill to create this commander). I love watching fast expand guides and more strags that require map knowledge and testing, so some of my custom co concepts will be influenced by such aspects as a result.

I can draft the ideal location sets of WC if you two wanted to know. I would also invite you to give feedback on it if I can finally make it real.

One thing Dehakaburger point out is that

And because of it, the map location sets of WC has never been decided to implement with Zeratul’s wide-range RNG location sets.

Btw…

Pylon in my concept has solely two purposes- generate power field and increase the power level of the Warp Platforms.

Probe’s free pylon as a result is a buff, you just have to protect it.

I must say this again- the pilots are not affected but the starships and them only.

Because of my concept doesn’t follow any “alternative timeline”, Selendis and the Golden Armada in this reality just get cleansed by the keystone. The campaign clearly stated these things:

  • The Armada consists of a great number of fleets.

  • From Artanis’s statement, it might seem that the firstborn couldn’t even mass a fleet as large as the GA during the end war.

  • Amon literally sent out every corrupted Protoss to stop the firstborn, as a result, most of the fleet might be destroyed in the process.

To conclude, Selendis’s fleet needs some justification in this reality.

While a lot of things can be considered- like those numberless returned stargates for example. I chose the Corruption approach (utilizing exist starships) as I personally found it perfectly fits most goals that I’ve set for Selendis co.

“Knowing the danger and try to prevent it to occur” is understandable. But “dire time forces people to adapt and to do things that they do not want to” also.

[I can actually switch the Void Corruption mechanic to Solarite Infusion, same mechanic but different lore justifications.]

What I truly concerned is gameplay-wise.

No offense, (for now) the only way to have control on VC is to avoid taking avoidable damage, optimizing assault routes. and keep a keen eye on how many ships you possess. Advance gameplay will have a stored VC-trigger.

If that is still considered to be really hard, please elaborate more so that I can tweak it.

Again, no offense, but IMO there are players who dislike Alarak but also who love it.

As for the concern of VC being “random”, please revision the last section above.

You are 100% in control.

The core of how this Selendis works is to know when and how to trigger VC.

Once upon a time, I invented a thing called Warp Program and the one and only Highlord call it “Artains Clone”.

Long story short, if I used this concept on Selendis, I will be forbidden to use it on other cos.

Btw Selenids actually has 250 supply, for now.

Have to make Warp Conduits gives the player a sense of comfort.
Have to reclaim Warp Conduits gives the player a need for progressing.

And how you activate a Warp Conduits is the same as how you reclaim Solarite during the campaign (with delay).

Long story short, it might seem that I’m being as stubborn as I could on defending my concepts. But if you can recall my direction of design, you know it will be the completely opposite.

My only interest is to create commanders for the majority of the community.

So if you have any further ideas, shoot. (Though I must find them to be appropriate on the said character)

61

That’s what I said and you quoted…

Please quote the entire thing, it becomes confusing if you divide full sentences.
So this Warp Conduits spawn areas are much narrower area than Zeratul?

If the gameplay restricts player’s freedom then it is not a good thing. There has to be incentive to play them.
Maybe if these corruption can be accumulated depending on certain actions and then be triggered by a button or manually, maybe the Void corruption can be viable.

None taken. Some people are demanding Alarak to have a manual button for Soul consumption for a reason (others find it good because it is within character/gameplay and others don’t because they complain death of their units as well as possibility of trolling). Besides, Alarak can mass deathball comfortably without worry of him consuming his units (unless enemy beat Alarak), some players I know just imprison Alarak inside blockades of buildings so he doesn’t eat his units. Players have have control of Alarak at least.

No offence but no, you are not in control. You may have ability to purify the corruption with retribution, structures, Crystals etc but if you don’t have a manual way to trigger it to your advantage instead triggers on its own, you are not in control.
If you make a command or button that makes unit corrupted as well as possibly using accumulated Void corruption, then you have control.
Things happening spontaneously is difficult to play and master. Imagine, to trigger Alarak to go “Empower me” you have to sacrifice certain number of enemies and allies instead of a simple push of a button.

Is that for your other commanders you are planning for future? OK. Development team will disagree with 250 supplies. 200 is enough.

If you that structure is in bad place then it will be problematic. This wouldn’t matter much in normal Co-op but in mutations this will be a nightmare to reclaim.
I don’t even know if these Conduits are destructible.

Add more liberty in game play (consider mutations and maps) and simplify some aspects like Warp Conduits buildings and Corruption feature.
Make corruption controllable not repress them with Retributions and Obelisks. Make something like Spear of Adun Upgrade which enables much finer control in corruption, and at the end “maybe” Selendis can unleash the power of Discipline and Corruption at tandem with utmost control. You know turning Amon’s Corruption against him rather than being controlled by it.