Which mutators would you rework?

There is a bunch of mutators on the mutation list that I think could be potentially decent mutators if reworked, but some of them have some make them unfun or simply chalked up to bad design. My List:

  1. Void Rifts

I like this mutator, but this mutator is very punishing for any hero without a strong early game. I would delay the first void rifts by about 30-45 seconds. And also set things up so that void rifts can’t spawn way behind distant enemy lines early or mid game.

  1. Killbots

I really hate the idea of mutators that throw invulernable enemies at you. The way I would change it is that Killbots are no longer invulernable, but instantly kill any enemy they attack or attack with extremely devastating abilities that must be dodged or suffer heavy losses. This would fit more with the theme of “Kill bots”. This would make all commanders potentially viable, but all would need to be very careful.

  1. Boombots

I actually like the mechanic of this mutation. Having to type in a code only another ally can see is interesting, but the problem is that Boombots start to spawn in unreasonable numbers as the game goes on. It gets to the point where the game basically becomes a typing game. I would make it so that Boombots can only spawn 1 at a time, but get slightly faster as the game progresses. There would also be a 20 second delay before the next boombot can spawn after the one is killed.

  1. Polarity

I would do in this way. One group of enemies takes 50% less damage from an ally and the other half of enemies gets a 50% damage boost. But like I said. Invulnerable enemies suck.

  1. Missile command

I would rework this so that missiles don’t start showing up till the 2 minute mark and instead of constantly filling the stage with visual noise they show up in waves. However I would make the missile individually more damaging if they manage to hit something. Missile would also be able to be targeted by abilities.

  1. Going Nuclear

All I would do here is simply add a visual indicator on minimaps.

  1. Heroes of the Storm

Only thing I would change is to allow heroes to appear in transport based waves.

What mutators would you rework and how?

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–Props - Max 4 of these on the map at any given time. Any converted above that number, the target dies without becoming new Props

—Polarity - yeah, your suggestion works for me

—Going Nuclear - move nukes a bit further away from safe zones so they can’t clip workers and buildings

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I can agree with the props suggestion. Some commanders are really really good at dealing with props to the degree that handling 4 at once isn’t a big issue, but its not like that for all.

And for going nuclear I also agree with that mostly. Though on some maps this could be easily exploited to trivialize the mutation.

Void Rifts

A cool mutator in theory, but has horrible implementation.
What improvements I’d look forward to:

  • spawn position adjustment, to prevent spawning in virtually inaccessible areas in early game — what RayoftheSun suggested;
  • unit roster adjustment, to prevent Tier 3 units for spawning in early game;
  • realtime vision on every Void Rift until it is destroyed.

Killbots

I’d suggest a conceptual rework that retains the core idea of “hostile threatening entity spawning from time to time”.
Enter the Stinkybot. Unlke Killbot, Stinkybot is killable, has no kill counter and no direct attacks. BUT it has an aura around self which constantly damages all your units in proximity — something similar to Rip-Field Generator from the WoL “Maw of the Void” mission. That will force any commander to take measures to kill any of them ASAP, while still making each commander viable in their own way.


Boombots

The concept of “disarming it before it goes boom” is fine by me. What’s not fine is the fact it keeps on blowing nukes over and over and over so long as it lives. Like, I understand that ignoring the code mechanics punishes you with unavoidable nuclear strike, but one bot bombing everything into Stone Age? Bruh, not cool.
At the same time, I can understand that bot which makes a single explosion and dies could be easily cheesable with placing random structures on the way, so just removing these repeatable explosions won’t work. Another conceptual rework is needed.

Enter the “Somebody set us up the bomb” mutator. Here is how it works:

  1. With each 90 seconds passed one of your (or your ally’s) structures is rigged to blow.
  2. As before, one of you sees the code, the other one is able to enter it to disarm the bomb. You have 15 seconds to do that.
  3. Active bombs are marked on the minimap and play a beeping sound until disarmed.
  4. Bombs prioritize production, research/upgrade and main structures instead of defensive ones.

With that you won’t have to worry about a walking bot somewhere on the map and can get directly to business as soon as the bomb is planted. If you miss a bomb, you will suffer in any case, but your punishment will be much more bearable.


Polarity

Yet again, I suggest a conceptual rework that retains the core requirement.

  1. When your forces are far enough from the ally’s (and vice versa), they suffer severe movement and attack speed penalty.
  2. When your forces are close together, they get a significant speed boost.

Plain, simple, no more invulnerable enemies and no more punishment for those who were unfortunate to match with inert allies.


Going Nuclear

Possible improvements:

  • visual indicators on the minimap — what RayoftheSun suggested;
  • adjusted drop locations for not interfering with your bases — what ackmondual suggested;
  • an alarm sound, similar to what we hear on nuclear missile spawn from the “Missile Command” mutator.

Propagators

Though ackmondual’s idea about capping their spread limit makes some sense, I think it would trivialize the mutator and strip it of its core charm.
What I’d suggest instead is HP reduction for each Propagator that’s spawned by the other Propagator. For instance, the initial Propagator has 512 HP, the Propagators synthesized by it would have 256 HP, and the Propagators synthesized by those would have 128 HP, and so forth. That way they still would pose the iconic “gray goo” threat, but at the same time their huge numbers would be much easily killable with AOE attacks.


Slim Pickings

Constant map scouting for random resource spawns is a huge headache. Even if you have all the vision, the process of riding through all the numerous mineral shards and gas clouds doesn’t become any much cooler.
Two things I would change.

  1. Make enemy attack waves, main objectives and (if possible) bonus objectives drop resources.
  2. Instead of filling the map with numerous tiny resource drops, generate chonky resource caches that are visible on the minimap, BUT have a time limit. Some of these could be even spawned right at the start of the game, to kickstart your initial production.

Laser Drill

The damage itself is not the end of the world, but our inability to knock out Mr. Laser for good is frustrating. So here’s what I would change.

  1. Spawn two Laser Drills instead of one. A third one also might be brought into action in the middle of the mission.
  2. Make one of these Laser Drills spawn not behind all enemy lines, but somewhere neat the first main objective.
  3. Make each Laser Drill upgrade and increase its attack over time.
  4. If the Laser Drill is knocked out, make its self-restoration process pause for as long as there is at least one your (or your ally’s) combat unit nearby.

Lastly, there are two mutators that I deem unfixable.

  1. Afraid of the Dark. I can’t come with any good mechanics improvement that would not demand jumping with camera all over the map, while still retaining this mutator’s uniqueness and not turning it into “Shortsighted”'s twin brother. Just remove it, please.
  2. Microtransactions. This mutator is just a whole load of bullcrap, both in its implementation and in its core idea. I feel like there was one specific Blizz developer who got sick of players that click all over the map and wanted to punish them personally, without thinking twice about how it ruins the whole game experience. There is nothing good in it, no matter how you think of it. Just remove it, please.
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A cool mutator in theory, but has horrible implementation.
What improvements I’d look forward to:

  • spawn position adjustment, to prevent spawning in virtually inaccessible areas in early game — what RayoftheSun suggested;
  • unit roster adjustment, to prevent Tier 3 units for spawning in early game;
  • realtime vision on every Void Rift until it is destroyed.

Agree mostly. However I think realtime vision might be a step to far. At least not if Void rifts is meant to be hard mutation. If you give void rifts vision then it will be incredibly easy for some commanders to deal with them using spells and summoned abilites.

Killbots

I’d suggest a conceptual rework that retains the core idea of “hostile threatening entity spawning from time to time”.
Enter the Stinkybot. Unlke Killbot, Stinkybot is killable, has no kill counter and no direct attacks. BUT it has an aura around self which constantly damages all your units in proximity — something similar to Rip-Field Generator from the WoL “Maw of the Void” mission. That will force any commander to take measures to kill any of them ASAP, while still making each commander viable in their own way.

This idea is good. I still like mine better because my idea really puts the kill in “Killbot” basically you have to approach killbots with extreme caution cause they could easily decimate your army if not careful.

Enter the “Somebody set us up the bomb” mutator. Here is how it works:

  1. With each 90 seconds passed one of your (or your ally’s) structures is rigged to blow.
  2. As before, one of you sees the code, the other one is able to enter it to disarm the bomb. You have 15 seconds to do that.
  3. Active bombs are marked on the minimap and play a beeping sound until disarmed.
  4. Bombs prioritize production, research/upgrade and main structures instead of defensive ones.

With that you won’t have to worry about a walking bot somewhere on the map and can get directly to business as soon as the bomb is planted. If you miss a bomb, you will suffer in any case, but your punishment will be much more bearable.

I like this. Good idea. However I’d still limit the amount of bombs that can appear at once.

Yet again, I suggest a conceptual rework that retains the core requirement.

  1. When your forces are far enough from the ally’s (and vice versa), they suffer severe movement and attack speed penalty.
  2. When your forces are close together, they get a significant speed boost.

Plain, simple, no more invulnerable enemies and no more punishment for those who were unfortunate to match with inert allies.

Also a good idea.

Going Nuclear

Possible improvements:

  • visual indicators on the minimap — what RayoftheSun suggested;
  • adjusted drop locations for not interfering with your bases — what ackmondual suggested;
  • an alarm sound, similar to what we hear on nuclear missile spawn from the “Missile Command” mutator.

Mostly agree, but a visual sound could also get rather annoying since so many nukes spawn.

Though ackmondual’s idea about capping their spread limit makes some sense, I think it would trivialize the mutator and strip it of its core charm.
What I’d suggest instead is HP reduction for each Propagator that’s spawned by the other Propagator. For instance, the initial Propagator has 512 HP, the Propagators synthesized by it would have 256 HP, and the Propagators synthesized by those would have 128 HP, and so forth. That way they still would pose the iconic “gray goo” threat, but at the same time their huge numbers would be much easily killable with AOE attacks.

I can see this although I have no issue with props as is right now.

  1. Make enemy attack waves, main objectives and (if possible) bonus objectives drop resources.
  2. Instead of filling the map with numerous tiny resource drops, generate chonky resource caches that are visible on the minimap, BUT have a time limit. Some of these could be even spawned right at the start of the game, to kickstart your initial production.
  1. could trivalize it is the issue, but
  2. The second one could be potentially good, but it could make the mutation even harder depending how its done.

The damage itself is not the end of the world, but our inability to knock out Mr. Laser for good is frustrating. So here’s what I would change.

  1. Spawn two Laser Drills instead of one. A third one also might be brought into action in the middle of the mission.
  2. Make one of these Laser Drills spawn not behind all enemy lines, but somewhere neat the first main objective.
  3. Make each Laser Drill upgrade and increase its attack over time.
  4. If the Laser Drill is knocked out, make its self-restoration process pause for as long as there is at least one your (or your ally’s) combat unit nearby.

I like idea 4, but spawning 3 laser drills seems like it would make the mutation even harder.

Lastly, there are two mutators that I deem unfixable.

  1. Afraid of the Dark. I can’t come with any good mechanics improvement that would not demand jumping with camera all over the map, while still retaining this mutator’s uniqueness and not turning it into “Shortsighted”'s twin brother. Just remove it, please.
  2. Microtransactions. This mutator is just a whole load of bullcrap, both in its implementation and in its core idea. I feel like there was one specific Blizz developer who got sick of players that click all over the map and wanted to punish them personally, without thinking twice about how it ruins the whole game experience. There is nothing good in it, no matter how you think of it. Just remove it, please.

Here is how I would fix the mutation. I would simply make it so all units and structures cost 50% more to make OR vespene costs are capped at one. However Microtransactions can be quite doable if care about how one moves their army and with certain strategies.

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  • Killbots – I like the idea of feeding but it needs to be balanced for Protoss/Terran. Maybe if the kills are made to be proportional to supply or if the killbot had a ridiculous amount of HP (vs. ∞).
  • Boombots – I’ve never played this but it looks fun! … I’m probably going to regret saying that.
  • Missile Command – my biggest issue with this is the lag.
  • Microtransactions – it’s not broken, but it’s not fun either.

Agree with pretty much everything else.

As for my suggestions:

  • Aggressive Deployment – a few seconds’ warning would be nice. Ever had viper cloud + banelings appear on top of your army?
  • Fatal Attraction – for those without the relevant top bar abilities, there’s no real counter for it. At the very least, the stun lock should be removed.
  • Transmutation – transmutated units should not beeline toward your main.
2 Likes

Well, so far this is exactly how they are killed for the most part — with either deep tunneling/teleportation or top-bar abilities. The difference is only that not all commanders are able to make such things without provided vision. I expect the provided vision not to change the overall strategy, but just make more commanders viable in executing it, to avoid the “only 3-4 commanders are fine” antipattern.

Good point. Then how about making an alarm only for those incoming nukes which are currently visible and are about hit some of your (or your ally’s) stuff?

I probably should’ve mentioned that I’ve been thinking about how it was implemented in “The Great Train Robbery” mission of WoL, where you similarly get resources from killing main objectives, while having limited resources at home. I threw in both suggestions because Coop requires most commanders to already have some money invested in at least somewhat basic army before even getting to the first objective.

Didn’t quite get the “vespene costs cap” part. But anyway, although your suggested variant makes the mutation much more bearable, I don’t think it reflects its core idea well. “Microtransactions” as we know them are about paying little money for all the possible things that are normally expected to be free — what you suggest, however, is more known as “overpricing”.

It is doable, I won’t deny that. Any mutation is doable.
But some mutators just happen to be way too annoying, and I consider this one to be truly among them.

Yes please! If I play as Raynor P3, I’d gladly feed 1-2 Battlecruisers instead of “cooking and serving” lackluster SCVs.

Didn’t even think of this one, but definitely should’ve. Fully agreed. Something similar with how it’s done at the “Temple” mission would work.

To be fair, attacking from a high range is not affected. But yes, I agree that stun should definitely be taken out of equation. Though I fear it was put there on purpose, because continued attacks during “forced relocation” might potentially create many bugs.

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