What I learned from watching old games of sc2 (pre-lotv)

General Discussion
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  1. Zerg wasn’t as out of control as now. A thing WoL and hots did better.

  2. Protoss was horrendous in the pre-lotv days. Same warp in speed everywhere (made them frustrating to play against), turtle to deathball, not much harassing potential. Lotv did fix the warp in speed problems, but did not fix the turtly nature of protoss.

  3. Terran was solid in WoL, kind of sucked in hots and early Lotv, now terran is much better, i would say just as good or even better than in WoL.

  4. Macro mechanics, manually changing gates to WGs and banelings were all fine in WoL and hots…ruined in Lotv.

  5. Hyrdas sucked and were boring to use. Blizz made them much better in lotv.

  6. Mutas were fine in WoL but way too annoying and OP in lotv

  7. Medivacs were fine in WoL, there were no need for all the extra upgrades for them in lotv, except making their base speed faster, and one upgrade for them that increased their base speed, but no needed for the boost.

  8. Tempests and Liberators made games more boring to watch and frustrating to play.

  9. WP pickup range was fine in WoL and hots, not fine in lotv.

  10. Air is just too strong in lotv. No need for teleporting BCs, that dumb corrupter ability, speed basnhees, super mutas, and broken toss air.

I probably missed other things.

In conclusion, lotv addressed some issues WoL had (warp in speed, slightly less turtly protoss, a better terran race than hots and maybe even WoL). However, lotv did other things worse: out of control zerg, took skill and apm away from protoss (im looking at you adepts that keeps walking right after shade is used, revalation, and automatically changing gates to WGs), air units way too strong and frustrating to play against, protoss ground still sucks compared to zerg and terran in relation of harassing potential and solid and microable core units pre-splash, too many upgrades for medivacs, WP pick up range

I wouldn’t mind doing some reverts or slightly more reverts back to WoL, but keep all the stuff in lotv that actually made the game better, then re-balancing from there.

There’s really no more need for hard desgin changes, but rather smaller ones. Blizzard had a great solid foundation to work with in the form of WoL only to ruin it a lot in hots and ruined it further in some aspects in lotv.

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:joy: Sure protoss air so broken even a bunch marine kill carrier thx too remove catapult upgrade

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because players just use carriers right? even bio terran was hated on a lot in WoL and it wasnt because they used just marines, but rather the mmm combo

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Because it choice of player it all fair untill MMM start played untill 20 minute mark cause 10 medivac plus emp plus stutter step in face unit costing atleast 200 plus gas.

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Wasnt blue flame Hellions in the mix back then ? I still remember some matches wiht Marine Marauder Helions and Medivacs.

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  1. eh, maybe
  2. somewhat agree, but protoss definitely has aggressive options now
  3. idk, I skipped hots, so I can agree that in both WoL and LotV Terran feels fine
  4. I don’t understand the problem with autowarping gates
  5. Hydras are a viable option now, yes
  6. they’re annoying by nature, but definitely not overpowered
  7. the medivac upgrades are kinda superfluous yeah
  8. They can be a bit frustrating, but I think they’re fine
  9. They nerfed it recently, I think it’s ok now
  10. HIGHLY disagree, teleport makes BCs a versatile and microable harass unit and allows them to fight tempests, Caustic Spray allows corruptors to do something after the enemy air is dead, speed banshees are still weak and can be zoned out by extra static d, super mutas…wtf? they’re stopped just fine by thors/mines/archons/phoenixes, broken toss air?? hahahahahahahaha!! you’re joking right?? Neural, Hydras, Corruptors, Vikings, EMP, even just stim marines kill skytoss.
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It was kind of out of control, gglords were a thing, I remember that Z could rush blords and spines and sometimes you couldn’t do anything, then you had the stephano mass roach, the roach busts, and the crazy muta switches that led to the phoenix buff.Z also had an insane amount of larva, it got nerfed with lotv because It was becoming a problem, keep in mind Z metagame and overall skill was advancing, you now see people from the past playing slow, people now are way better and play faster, bring an actual top Z to the past and he would destroy every tournament.

mutas were not really good in wol, once the enemy had some damage they become pretty useless since they had no regeneration.Actual muta is better because it works on every stage of the game.

They needed that boost, you should remember how after every tvp fight the P blinked foward and destroyed every medi, and the drop play when the meds were buffed was improved.

Tempest, yes, it was always a boring unit, it used to be imba and really boring, now its just boring and kinda useless. Liberator is a nice unit, it has been nerfed several times, used to be almost broken, now is good and useful.

Overall the game improved a lot when compared to WoL, then the game was pretty slow, not just because the gameplay/meta wasn’t really advanced but because the units were also slow, almost no room for fast gameplay like now, meds were slow, mutas could be damaged, P had the instant HT with storms for a while, and a lot of units were not really good like tanks, hidras, banelings, zealots, thors, BC,‘‘raven’’ (depending the player will tell you the new is better or worse)…

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Zerg’s economy was wayyyy better before LOTV

lol, or massively OP

Banelings were better in WOL and you had more of them. You only think they’re better now because the only viable comps Zerg has involve banelings. Guaranteed if any other comp was viable you’d whine about them too

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hopefully the faster VRs will show everyone that we wont need Tempests anymore to deal with BLs, Libs and BCs so it can be removed.

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While over-all Strats where ALOT smaller back in the day, the game was ALOT more balance back then
yeah we have alot more strats being used but Zerg is just OP As S1ht
Protoss hasnt won GSL in YEARS and if they make it deep they end up just being bent over and spanked

So While we are seeing more Strats I would say its from an act of desperation from players trying to learn how to deal with a RAMPAGING Zerg, Protoss is trying alot of differnt things (none of which is getting them to win any GSL truth be told so not good enough) and is on life support at this time
Zerg is just getting out of control
Best Eco Best Late game over-all is just a stupid combo.

Let me put it like this I wanna see a Protoss lose 20 probes inside 7-8 mins do little to no damage in return and still win and make it look easy to do so like Zerg can.

Edit : In a Pro scene.

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  1. I’m not too sure about the past, but I heard swarm hosts literally killed the game in HOTS. I don’t think Zerg is as bad now, but Terran still has a good chance at beating Zerg.
  2. Again, not too sure about the past talk, but Protoss is the WEAKEST at turtling. I have no idea what you are talking about.
  3. No clue. What I can say is Terran is in a very good spot right now.
  4. What is this about banelings? I don’t know, but I liked the gateway change. No protoss keeps gates as is - they always become warp gates after the research is done.
  5. Ravagers are even better, that’s why no one uses hydras.
  6. That’s funny. I don’t recall any major buffs to mutas. If anything, they have been effectively canceled due to the power of widow mines and thors. Ling bane muta is an impossible strat to pull off against Terran now, and you can only catch Protoss off guard with mutas too.
  7. Why are you complaining about a buff? XD
  8. I’m not sure about liberators, but Protoss needed a way to pick at units from afar. Liberators are just all around broken.
  9. They nerfed it significantly. What more do you want…?
  10. Corruptors are fine, speed banshees are fine, mutas are fine. Toss air is WEAK and BCs are broken.

I don’t really think you know what you are talking about

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yeah cause why should toss have to use apm and skill to pick off long range units!! That wont be prototss that way!!

if you think currupoters are fine then you never had any that destroyed your buildings. Funny how Devourers never needed anything else and no one complained about them.

Heck avilo took games off of master level players by massing currupters and using their stupid ground ability

Wish we can get the old blizzard back

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If you’ve had your buildings destroyed by corruptors, then you’ve never learned how to deal with an air unit that can’t shoot ground. I mean, honestly, it’s not that hard.

Vikings can drop, phoenixes can lift, but corruptors cannot damage ground units in any way, just buildings. A handful of marines, some mines, or a thor or 2 can easily protect your structures.

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yet avilo makes it work at the master level.

and ive seen it used in tourneys to get free wins

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It can catch you off guard I guess, but if the corruptor count is high enough to pose a large threat to your buildings then his ground army isn’t adequate, so capitalize on it. A ground army will win a basetrade vs corruptors 99% of the time.

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Bruh corraptors problem even for protoss cause he counter voids

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Zerg has enough ways to deal damage. Remove that ability from Corrupters.
Make SC2 great again!

Not every air unit needs to be able to do something on the ground. If blizzard really wants something for that unit, then give them an ability that will increase damage ground units take, or another utility ability.

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Agreed. The corruptors caustic spray is superfluous. They already are fantastic anti air units for cost. They don’t need to also do the same DPS to buildings as stimmed maruaders.

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sure i’ll go back and get 4 larva per inject if you think zerg is “more OP in lotv” …