What are Niche units in Co-op?

Co-op Missions Discussion
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After reading Mengsk article I remembered Sky Fury as Niche units. I just wants to list a few other niche units.

1. Mengsk’s Sky Fury
A niche build, apparently they are pretty good at sniping Map Objects like Belshir Whales, Void thrashers and Void shards.
That is it though. Their combat capability is questionable, their abilities are convoluted (Level 3 ability) and very situational.

2. Swann’s Cyclones
I don’t use them much so I can’t say much about them, but their lock on abilities look pretty cool.
They are rarely seen though (personally even rarer than Wraiths), I considered giving them extra sight/range and speed would make them more fun.

3. Fenix’s Disruptor
I haven’t used them much either and they are rarely seen. Their ground ability looks solid though but they are quite hard to use. I wonder if giving them autocast can make them more useful.

4. Dehaka’s Basic Combat units
I mean Roach, Hydralisks, Ultralisks exclusively. The reason is obvious, why bother when Dehaka can evolve them to better units? Personally I think would be nice if there is a prestige that promote them.

5. Dehaka’s Igniters
Very underrated unit in my opinion, their 350~525 Hp tankiness coupled with splash attack and cheap price make them really good alternative to Tyrannozors to certain extent. Their use isn’t situational (mostly) as they can face most ground waves without melting (they really can take a beating).

6. Stukov’s Banshees
They are great at sniping but their scan range make them terrible attackers as they focus on single target. At least I see them more often than the 5 above.

7. Karax’s Mirage
I could be wrong in this, I haven’t seen much of this composition but I guess their useage increased when Templar Apparent prestige came out. Unlike Artanis’s Phoenix they are surprisingly tough because of their Mirage armour and Repair Beam (Which also improved). They go really well with Sentinels.

8. Abathur’s Mutalisks (Reconsidering/Very Rare)
I think this is considered a niche unit because I don’t see them a lot. Abby’s Mutalisks are fragile and hard to build up but when lot of them get 100 biomass they become nigh unstoppable, they really work wonders with Essence Hoarder.

Reconsidered

9. Vorazun’s Void Rays
I like to use these units but I am reading some articles that says they are niche units. I don’t think it is entirely true but it is a fact that lot of people are calling out an improvement on them (especially speed)(I can’t blame them though, I love space ships that shoot lasers).

If I missed something please share, I’d love to hear them.

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Add Artanis Phoenix mostly when it comes to P1 . They’re pretty darn weak as you mentioned under Karax mirrages but the double lift and range upgrade, full points into cooldown mastery (which stacks with P1) they become pretty strong at neutralizing ground waves.

It’s got to be the right map and composition but they got their uses.

Add Alarack Vanguards good for infested maps with sustained fighting . Ascendants orb obviously much better source AoE damage but you might run out of energy dealing with sustained infested.

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Definitely disagree here. Abathur’s mutalisks are some of his best non ultimate units… all purpose air units that rapidly heal ooc and fairly F2A (except for area effect damage, and then they are fast for dodging things like storms). Their only weakness is their fragility, but biomass solves that. (and P1 means you really don’t care about losing them because the Biomass is recycled)

As for Mirage and Phoenix, they make a nice zealot combo

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Sort of niche, more so these days. I think it’s less so P2 that did it though, more just how much better his Carriers are with catapult and +25% attack speed.

I use them pretty often though myself.

I’d say Dark Archons are much more her niche unit, too many times I’ve seen mass Void Rays to call it niche.

Void Rays just have several weaknesses that make them harder to use than your general DT/Corsair setup. I personally don’t understand the speed requests myself, Vorazun has fantastic mobility with her Dark Pylon recalls.

I’d say Alarak’s Vanguard and Kerri’s Brood Lords are pretty niche as well, both are good in specific situations but generally are overshadowed pretty bad.

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Take Karax’s Mirage off the list. Mirage/Sentinel is a much more mobile army than his Carriers are and are very strong vs enemy air comps, especially Zerg Air. It’s not niche at all.

There are plenty of situations where Carriers won’t cut it because they’re just too bulky and slow not to mention the ramp up time.

Mirage/Sentinel is a good balanced unit comp that works in a large variety of situations it just requires more APM than Carrier spamming does so a lot of Karax players just steer clear of it.

Also take Vorazun’s VRs off of this. Mass Void Ray is simple, easy to use and works in a wide variety of scenarios.

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Here’s a few you missed.

Han and Horner: Any Mira unit except the Reaper, but especially the Widow Mine.

The Reaper is hands down the best unit she has, and the only one that can attack air units. Helbats can be good early game against early game Zerglings and Hellions can be good early game vs things like Adepts but once you’re out of the early game all of Mira’s units other than the Reaper are just wastes unless you’re specifically mixing them in for their death bonuses and upgrading for it.

Swann: Helbats.

I’ve only found these useful if I’m starving for gas for some reason or when I’m up against Fatal Attraction Mutation. Otherwise any 2 supply spent on Helbats would be better spent on Goliaths.

Swann: Wraiths

Niche doesn’t mean bad, Wraiths aren’t bad units but they get so thoroughly outshined by Goliaths in every way except for mobility, and even that can be worked around with Herc Micro.

I’ve only ever found Wraith builds to be useful on Void Launch. I’ve used them in Brutal missions on every map, but Void Launch is the only map where I can say, hey vs these sorts of Mutations, Wraiths would be better here. Wraiths are the definition of niche for Swann because Goliaths simply do their job better in most situations.

Kerrigan: Broodlord

Broodlords are expensive, can’t attack air and can’t take advantage of the Nydus Network. Kerrigan’s Mutalisks get such a huge variety of buffs that if you were going to make air units why would you even bother turning Mutas into Broods? The situations where Broods make sense are few and far between.

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Might be slightly different uses of the word ‘niche’ in this thread. The OP’s been criticised for listing Void Rays as niche, but here’s the sense in which it makes sense:

https://i.ibb.co/1KG3MH0/vorazun-builds.png

They’re the best option in a rare circumstance. Doesn’t have to be speedrunning maps, could be mutators, but I think to be niche there should be a minority of the time they’re the best.

I’m not aware that Swann’s Cyclones have a niche – Wraiths seem more likely. Fenix’s Disruptors may, in some mutations, but it’s above my pay grade to say. Scouts (massed) are a clearer niche unit. For Dehaka, yeah, I don’t think any of his basic units have a niche, outside of when you’re low level. Impalers, Wurms and Creeper Hosts all are, and yeah, Igniters might be a bit.

Stukov’s Banshees definitely are niche, yep. Karax’s Mirages too – though with Solarite Celestial I think they’re arguably even better, as a generalist pick, because Sentinel/Mirage gives fast vision and decent mop-up, which is all P3 needs.

Abathur’s Mutalisks aren’t niche: they’re an amazing generalist in the meta.

Again, this is all in the sense I’m using the term. I think the OP and a few others use it a bit differently.

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Raynor’s sedge tanks, have you ever seen one?

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Siege Tanks my anti-Ghost unit of choice for Raynor!

Also they are fantastic against Terran Bio and Zerg ground comps (including explosive threats). They just take micro.

Also Miner Evac they’re fantastic

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Yeah, Mirages are just underrated because Carriers, Mirages works well vs air comps with Orbital for splash dmg, the only real danger to them are corsairs and even then they can take a beating without dying, you definitelly would like this unit for air Zerg.

The problem isn’t the dmg but the low movement speed and health, they can die to splash way too easilly for it’s cost, in Hard difficulty they are great especially that ark pylon recall deals with the low-mobility problem, but Brutal the spell harass is a huge danger to them, but not enough to be niche, that’s where Dark Archons are at, where you just use vs protoss so the stolen units benefits from your own upgrades.

They’re only niche because it is outshined by the ultralisks to be frontline for hydras, it’s not a bad idea to get broodlords vs infested if you already know ally is going siege units, it’s easier to use broodlords than lurkers, but ultras are easier than broodlords.

They’re actually really good, unfortunatelly Raynor players only thinks of BCs over other mech units, P2 tanks are really good.

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There’s also the simple fact that Ultralisks share upgrades with Zerglings while Kerrigan’s air units only share upgrades with each other.

The biggest thing is the Omega Network. The Omega Network takes away the one primary thing that Air units have over ground units, especially big bulky ground units like Ultralisks: mobility.

Kerrigan’s ground units are just more mobile than her air units are and she has freaking MUTALISKS in her arsenal it’s wild.

Take away the Omega Network and Kerrigan’s Ultralisks wouldn’t be anywhere near as good as they are with it.

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Even worse for the poor Broodlords, when you actually do take away Omega Worms with her P1 you’d actually want ground units even more.

Poor Disruptors, they’re actually really good with proper control, they wipe ground comps in an instant. But Fenix just has so much ground damage potential in his champs and the rest of his army that they just don’t get used.

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I’d say queens.

For Zagara people usually rather make other Hatcheries while for Kerrigan (except P1) they creep with Worms and also make other hatches.

Zagara still: the corruptor. People do make one but it is not great massing them for anti air.

For Stetman maybe Mecha lurker since there are ultralisks doing huge Aoe ground damage.

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Is it still niche when they aren’t used because they just aren’t very good? :crazy_face:

Touche

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Corruptors are decent if you actually cast corruption on stuff, especially P2 corruptors.

Micro units don’t really fit Zagara though , as you relative to other commanders you spend a lot time queuing up more stuff instead of microing your army. Most of the limited micro then gets directed toward Zagara herself.

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Hmm, what about Nova’s marauders? I believe it is the worst variation compared to others, mostly because it is completelly outshined by siege tank and liberators to be the hard hitters.

I could mention the charging protocol of the Stetmann’s infestor, but that’s a spell issue rather than the unit itself as the nano roaches are a viable strat.

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On the few times my computer behaved with Stetmann, charging protocol is fantastic paired with Ultralisks or BCLs. Though it’s very high micro.

Also it’s good with roach spam

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What I like is that niche units are actually useful or even top choice in certain cases, which is a big improvement from where some used to be completely useless.

The reason they’re niche is not because they’re kinda rubbish, which they aren’t, but rather because there’s almost always a much better choice. After all, why take a beating when you can wipe out the wave before they even get to react.

The problem is they struggle till massed and that takes time. They’re also vulnerable to the AOE spells that the updated enemy comps are better at using. They do work really well on maps like Miner Evac, just shove some cheap buildings in front of the ships.

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Got to disagree about Mirage. It is the butter to the Sentinel bread. I became a more reliable Karax the moment I abandoned all other build and just mass Sen-Mir.

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You monster, what about Energizer/Sentinel for mech comps?

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