Stukov Mech units are powerful but are difficult heal.
Of course you can bring some SCV (Hotkey), but they are slow and they constantly drain resources.
I thought of a way to remedy them.
This one I disagree with. Seen these ideas before but personally I don’t believe that all commander should get a heal mechanism.
Repair is already very useful but I get the frustration. On the other hand, most his mech out ranges everything else, so the idea is to tank with infested then push with mech.
i also disagree with giving Stukov any more mech buff.
He got expendable infantry as an advantage to offset his inability to conveniently heal Mech. Should not give every commander tool to cover all of their shortcomings. It’s better to leave some area of weaknesses while having other Strengths to compensate for that. Fenix and Artanix not having heal is a good example.
if ol’ mate Stukov gets a heal, can my protoss friends have one too
Ok fair enough
But I think Infested Liberators do warrant some improvements (Not a buff but fixing a loose end).
Unlike Diamondbacks which has infested can cover as meatshields, Liberators don’t (They are the meat shield). Liberator’s main problem is incomplete method of attack.
I did some experiment.
Current Infested Liberators
Virulent Cloud ability is clunky. As soon as their Cloud form attack is over, they immediately change back to their Liberator form even during a fight which make them vulnerable. Liberators only rush into their first target, after that they “move” to the next.
I rewatched Maguro’s Liberators and they are perfect.
Maguro’s Infested Liberators
Their Cloud mode stays until “all nearby air units” are destroyed, assuring destruction of enemies and protecting themselves from attack. I must make note that Maguro’s Liberators rush every time to attack.
Yeah this was a great proposal by M, and it was very clunky (still is but better than before). In fact, it was super fragile too before, wayyyyy harder to use.
The previous liberators were disaster and Blizzard indeed fixed it after Patch 4.9.0 but unfortunately it’s still not as good as Maguro’s version.
Yes, i know there are windows of time when they will be vulnerable but i don’t see them being so terrible to warrant Maguro’s imbalance buff.
I remember inf lib before even the current buff and they are literally horrible. The current libs are already competing with Corsair as best AA air unit in game and they have the 85% damage reduction to survive the onslaught.
Do you realise how utterly broken libs would be if they stay in cloud form as M suggested? they will have 85% reduction all the time which means healing is 567% more effective on them, their effective health pool will be 1200 health. You pay 150M & 125G and get a flying fortress of doom that has 1200 health and the most powerful AA weapon in the game.
It was a bit OP for sure, but I think you are over selling your point too. It is just an AA unit after all.
Moreover, it doesn’t permanently stay in cloud dispersal form. ALthough it’s been awhile since I checked it, but I am fairly sure it doesn’t “stay” in that form. So it’s effect health pool is not nearly as high as your 1200. Many air units out ranges its range 5. Not to mention they aren’t applied to spell damage (as far as I know).
The point is
My reason to call an unit powerful
_ high enough damage (Does need to be too high) to nullify highly armoured targets
_ fast enough attack speed to deny enemy from being able to attack
_ instant attack (cost no time for projectile to reach target), beam attack is ok and melee is obviously instant.
_ area of effect, the larger the better
_ high splash damage, between 25% splash and 100% splash i will go for 100%.
Of all these points, libs and corsair are the only the fit the bill. Many times i favored valkyrie over SC2 Terran AA air units because while Valkyrie’s rockets are slow, it attacks in a perpetual stage with enough Valk i can fill the air with only flying rockets and the muta dies because of strayed rockets before they could attack.
Next, we’ll give Han & Horner life leech for their Galleons and Hellions/Hellbats/Widow Mines!
/s
I’m not sure why you provided such an extensive list.
Your entire point was calling out M’s version of Infested Liberator being broke not only that calling them entirely imbalanced. You literally went from that to changing to “I didn’t call them that, I said they are powerful”.
I was just pointing out the fact you are blowing out of proportions.
All the times i was comparing corsair with lib, i am comparing the current lib (not M’s version).
The current lib has a powerful attack but it is another thing that the same unit with powerful attack is also nigh-invulnerable to damage.
Edit: I apologize if i made it sound like i were antagonizing but It is more about the certain buff and nerf make absolutely no sense and offends my belief than others.
The current libs are good and not broken because there are windows of time that they are not in cloud form and be vulnerable to enemy damage.
Dehaka’s description of M’s Libs are
If i understand this correctly, the only weakness lib has is removed which is why i called it imba.
Corsairs have several advantages and offensive and defensive potentials that Infested Liberators don’t have.
Stukov’s Infested Liberators have flaws despite 85% protection.
My point is Liberators are still incomplete and are suitable in situational circumstance therefore rarely used. Maguro’s Infested Liberators are powerful Anti Air units and more complete than current one.
I mean I use them fairly regularly and honestly they are in a pretty good spot.
Not overly powerful in terms of damage (because that damage animation is still a bit clunky) and not that high of damage. The cost off sets it well enough (not to mention the supply.
Anyway, it’s not so much about how good liberators are. It’s more about whether a heal is warranted, which I don’t believe it is necessary, especially when a bulk of Stukov’s army would not benefit from it.
hahah, I forgot about that.
Yeah, I guess Stukov mech doesn’t need healing.
I can accept mechs don’t need healing and mechs such as Diamondbacks are great.
Well that’s how I feel about Stukov’s Liberators.
Are you serious? We are comparing units’ functioning. How can you put black hole and Time Stop as Corsair’s advantages? Stukov can pair with Vorazun and Blackhole or time stop can also benefit Libs too. The Stealth bonus damage is acceptable because only Corsair can cloak itself and it’s a given that Corsair always get the bonus.
And Dark Archon is an entire unit what does it have to do with anything?
You can’t say Raynor’s rines are better than Mengsk Troopers ‘cause Raynor has Medics. That’s illogical.
Diamondback is a ground unit, advantage of air over ground unit is the ability to stack units in the same space. Diamondback with its large collision size constrains its ability to contribute damage to how many can fit around the enemy. Diamondback has long range but unless you move their group closed enough to the enemy, only 3-4 can open fire.
While we stay on air vs ground, libs has better mobility (i am not talking about how fast they are) and unrestricted sight.
And performance wise, i lost more diamondbacks than i have ever lost libs. For a commander that has such a huge ground force for cheap price as Stukov, i prefer air support to the ground mech which feels quite restrained in its performance.
Also Diamondback costs lots of mineral not mentioning losing Diamondback too often and i barely make enough to spam rines. Gas isn’t that much problem to me as mineral.
Libs may look incomplete but they are tied with siege tank as the two mechs that are doing their job the best for Stukov. Banshee and Diamondback lack something for their output.
At least they auto-repair. As for resources, you end up floating minerals anyways. And it’s still cheaper to repair than make new ones.
Queen is a T3 unit. They’re not cheap either. It’s just easier and quicker to have SCVs follow Libs into the field, or move Libs back for repairs at your main/exp.
Hell, I barely want to mess with Swann’s Science Vessels for similar reasons (T3 unit, cost of 100/200/2. I only end up making them for detection. Otherwise, the “unit regen” upgrade does a surprisingly decent job of healing up your mech units in between battles.
Plus, I’d rather be using the Queen’s energy stores for her other spells
In terms of lore, I’m not sure how they got to burrow. Also not sure if that’s something that could be applied to all Zerg air (as it doesn’t make much sense).
Gameplay, would this be an individual upgrade for each unit type, or something at the Hatchery?
Probably goes against lore. Gameplay-wise, this seems odd to “let everything else do what one unit is doing”
The only thing they need is better regeneration out of combat, other than that I don’t even bother repairing them, I just replace them when they die.
I’m told their previous mastery was just that. However, it got replaced with “faster mech attack speed”. I don’t know what prompted such a change, but it’d be ironic to come “full circle”, and revisiting that (as a mastery, or even an upgrade).