Void Rays = best Toss unit. Change my mind

General Discussion
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The more I play, the more and more evident it becomes, in my mind, that the void ray is probably the most important unit to Toss.

I think part of it is, people live to nerf Toss units, no matter how bad they are (especially the balance team). But, given the void ray is Toss’ least used unit, it has had fewer nerfs to it than the other units, making it the best unit by default.

The void ray has really only been apart of the meta for a month or two. For a short time period, sky toss became the best style in P vs P. But, Harstem whined and whined about it being too good, which resulted in the only nerf to the void ray that I’m aware of. Go figure…

I would say it’s time to acknowledge the void ray as being our best all-around unit, but let’s be real… the second someone makes a void ray in a pro game, it will get heavily nerfed, whether Toss wins or not. So, let’s keep it on the low.

I already know it’s the best unit vs Zerg, if you’re macro/late game oriented. It’s also the best unit in P vs P because it allows you flexibility that no other unit can. I’m now going to experiment with it vs Terran ( won my last game with void rays). Will the void ray also turn out to be Toss’ best unit vs Terran, defying all of conventional wisdom and logic?

At this point, who can bet against the void ray? You going to make a tempest? Carriers? Zealots that are going to get nerfed until “being armed with a sharpened pencil is deemed too OP?” Perfectly microing blink stalkers, so you can trade evenly? I don’t think so.

Those who would bet against the void ray, explain yourselves. Motivate me to prove you wrong. Ye of little faith, show yourselves. And fans of the void ray, too. Could always use more.

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On paper they are trash and the greatest talents who have ever toched the race don’t build them

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If you want your heart broken:

  • log in to EU server.
  • Make a game with balance update unit tester
  • Have the AI amove single-target thors against voidrays on +3 upgrades
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On paper, I think it looks better than all of the other Toss units. The way I see it is, if the tempest can be made in a pro game, then… it would be an insult and half to not make void rays every game.

The tempest is so bad that anyone that makes one should be automatically investigated for match fixing (not that Toss could win, anyways).

The “greatest talents” are merely the people with the best mechanics who copied w/e was trendy, more times than not. And, at the end of the day, it’s about winning tournaments, something Toss never does.

What is there to lose? May as well try something else.

I think that not only are the stats pretty decent for the void ray, but the ability to stack them and guarantee having all of your theoretical DPS actually being in the fight, at all times, is incredibly underrated and overlooked.

It’s like having force fields. You’re simply able to attack with more units in fights than they are, a lot of the times.

I appreciate the suggestion, and I might do just that. But, if you want bad Toss news… have the thor go up against basically any Toss unit, and it’s not great.

Try to have a thor that’s being repaired by scvs go up against a Toss unit, and it can kill an infinite amount of units, pretty much.

Toss is clearly not Terran, whether the void ray is our best unit or not. Can only work with what you’re given, sadly.

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I like mass phoenix. I also like people who make void rays, they have a cool death animation. And are really bad at protecting probes.

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I hate mass phoenix. Mass void rays are so much cooler. Mass phoenix is for cavemen. Mass void rays are for aristocrats.

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Look at these dumb dumb toss players over here making units.
Meanwhile the terran masterrace just mass ravens + a single viking and disable all your units while slowly killing them.

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VR have been counter to BCs maybe now they will, if you dont read balance patches they are getting a buff, flux vanes will make a difference

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Not really. Yamato Cannon, then clean up. 10 HP is virtually nothing, two-three shots can get rid of that.

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The biggest problem I feel of the void ray in PvT (a matchup I don’t playo too much, only when offracing) is that I kind of find it really hard to see how it can deal with marines.

Maybe against mech they can be pretty good, but honestly I don’t see any way to make them work against bio, I’d rather make disruptors or collosi. From this point on, the terran player would add some liberators to their army, in which case I feel some tempests would actually fare better at dealing with them rather than trying to kill the liberators with voids, which would need to get relatively exposed to the bio to kill them.

Although who knows, when I play toss or terran I do my cookie-cutter builds (1-1-1 into bio play, blink stalker pressure into ICA) or some cheese and call it a day.

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In the early game, I think anything + void rays might be alright vs marines. But later game, I think you do need colossi + void rays. Then, it should just be about adding in phoenix to deal with vikings (to supplement/avoid getting kited to death).

Whether it be facing liberators or tanks or w/e, I feel like void rays can’t be worse than tempests. A couple games ago, I had 9 void rays take out 5 or 6 tanks in a few seconds, during a battle. Try to kill something with a tempest, and dude can reposition or just a-move into you. There’s no such thing as punishing mistakes. Best case scenario is simply buying time.

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It sounds at the very least interesting to try. Good luck on that.
The proposed void ray update might be a very interesting tool to bear in mind if void rays prove to be valuable assets in PvT.

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I’ve beaten Double Stargate Void Ray into Stalker VR with BC opening into Marine Tank Battlecruiser fist time I took Terran last season. Had no idea what I was doing, even lost natural, yet I completely clowned over Protoss XD
Nope, no Medivacs, but Stim was researched.

Sure, it was around… 3200 MMR level, and I’ve lost few games before that, but still. I just wish replays from that time were functional, I still have it saved XD

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In the 3 seconds that the Battlecruisers take to use Yamato Cannon, a group of Void Rays starting with near equal supply can close the gap to the Battlecruisers and deal enough damage that they will often win despite the fact that most of them have only 10 health once Yamato finishes. In larger engagements, many of the Battlecruisers will actually die before their Yamato Cannons fire.

I expected Battlecruisers to win outright until I actually tested it recently.

Back when Yamato Cannons dealt 300 damage the Battlecruisers with perfect Yamato Cannons were guaranteed to win because close to 2/3 of the Void Rays would outright die to the Yamato Cannons (less than 2/3 because some Battlecruisers die before Yamato Cannons finish casting). This would leave the Battlecruisers with enough of a supply lead to finish off the remaining Void Rays despite the damage that the Battlecruisers have already taken.
Now though, the Void Rays win because the damaged Void Rays more time to deal damage before getting killed off, and because the Battlecruisers are inefficient at killing off those remaining 10 health Void Rays.

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Eh what do you expect immunity to yamato? Idk how much HP is left on Void ray.

Why should they? Cheese some proxy VR gold league style and it will soon become ez win for any level. It’s already annoying how one has to deal with VR early game if one produces. There’s no reason mass Marines to not kill VRs… Plus its upgrade or what it will have now is what will make it able to escape.

Maybe Yamato needs to cost energy again that’s the only nerf/counter I see to the void rays being usable and yes that means HT if you can use them… now if you cant have any HT able to do anything blame your controls.

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Voidrays have: 0 armor, low HP, stack easily, are useless in small numbers because beam attacks, do pitiful damage vs non-armored units, and have only 6 range. Vs armored units, they’re only good when in either massive numbers, or when charged, and even when charged, they’re not that good in small numbers.

Vs Terran, they’re awful because marines exist and yamato puts them on 10 hp. If they were 3 supply (and re-balanced accordingly, probably with a 0.25-0.4 slower attack rate (to 0.75-0.9 from 0.5) and reduced cost), they might be able to have a place in the match up.
Vs Zerg, they’d be pretty good if not for Queens and Infestors.
Vs Protoss, they get completely wrecked by Archons; Phoenixes and stalkers do just fine against them in small numbers.

They’re one of the better units in monobattles though.

Tempests should really be 4 supply as well with their current cost; they’re not expensive enough for a flying 5 supply unit. That, or Terran/Zerg air units don’t cost enough supply (I’m more inclined to think this one tbh; air units tend to be way stronger per supply than ground units).

Depends. If the battlecruisers target the voidrays at the back of the group, they barely lose some of the time, but if they target the voidrays at the front as they approach, the BCs will win every time by a huge margin. If neither side uses abilities, voidrays lose. There are pretty good grounds for at least buffing the base Voidray DPS against armored units, or maybe halving their attack rate and doubling their damage/hit.

At least, that’s how it goes with equal supply. BCs are quite a bit more expensive per supply though. On ~ equal cost, voidrays can edge it out a bit more of the time, but there’s some rng involved based on the yamato targeting. They do win if no abilities are used at equal cost though.

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