Unlocking the Brutation - sorta like MMR for Versus

Imagine you could only queue for the Mutation difficulty that you beat last week (edit: or last mutation played). Once you beat it, you can go higher.

Example1:
Last week the player beat it on Hard, but not Brutal, so this week he is blocked from queuing Brutal until he beats it on Hard first.
Example2:
The same player managed to beat Hard and then Brutal last week (gz!), so this week he can queue for Brutal right away.

This would act similar to MMR, where players of similar skill level meet.

In order to accommodate this “extra work” people would have to do, it would be worth looking at restructuring the Mutation rewards in a way that rewards this process.

Edit/Update:

  • Winning the difficulty could unlock you for longer periods of time than one week so you don’t have to “watch paint dry” on lower difficulties.
  • In a Party you would have no restriction. Encourages making friends and becoming better together through a challenge/mutation, which is generally a better game experience than random where you get all kinds of unwanted partners (less skilled, more skilled, wants a carry…)
5 Likes

Interesting idea. I kinda like it, initially, on the surface. Would need to give it a bit more careful consideration before fully endorsing, though. But I think you might be on to something.

However, Blizzard mostly wants all content available to all players—where the players themselves are the restricting factor—so I doubt a system like this, with a hard-lock mechanic, would ever be implemented in SC2 co-op, even if it does have some design merit, and could potentially improve gameplay.

Freedom vs restriction

Dumdum players vs competent players

Batman vs Superman (Batman wins)

Piper Perri vs Elsa Jean (everyone wins)

3 Likes

Sounds like a way to get the noobs of brutation which would be great. However I have to say no because giving players more choices and options ALWAYS beats restricting them behind time/pay/grindwalls

That would mean I’d have to play Mutations every week even if I don’t want to.

I don’t want to play Co Op every week and I definitely don’t want to play every Mutation combo they decide to put in, I don’t feel like I should be shoved into Casual the week I come back. That’s stupid.

Hard is definitely too easy of a mode for me, Brutal is the only mode worth playing on.

5 Likes

I understand your concern. But how many of you vs how many of the ones suffering from noobs in Brutal are there? Also, it doesn’t have to be last week. It could carry over several weeks and decay slowly. If you come back after several weeks it is fair to get you to warm up first, even switching between commanders while you play Co-Op actively usually requires a warm up before you perform well again.

Well it’s not the finished thing. The important thing is the idea, some reasonable mechanism that turns Mutations into a sort of progression thing while at the same time sorting out a few overambitious players.

I disagree. Blizzard blocks player choice all the time in their games, as do other companies. You don’t become a Grandmaster without playing your way up. Placement matches and MMR are common in SC, WoW, HotS, OW. In Diablo you have to unlock higher difficulties and Rift Tiers.
In fact sometimes giving players too much choice and freedom can even be a bad thing, even if players don’t agree. (Obviously players aren’t always wrong, but it’s uncommon for Blizz to solve problems as is suggested by players.)

1 Like

I think the “don’t play every week” problem can be solved by having the system look at the last mutation you played.

If the last weekly mutation that you played you only earned Casual/Normal or no level bounty…

Then you are locked out of this week Hard+Brutal until you beat it on normal. (which unlocks Hard, and winning Hard unlocks Brutal).
You can then go a few years and start back in a new Brutal mutation.

Noobs in my games do not bother me. Co Op queues are relatively instant and there’s no penalty for leaving a game.

If I’m trying to get a mutation done and my ally is clearly below Brutal level playing on Brutal, I just leave and requeue. There’s nothing preventing me from doing that.

As for regular missions. Those are all easy enough to solo, so having a noob on my team actually makes it a little more fun.

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Noobs in my games do bother me when it gets difficult, such as mutations or extreme cases - polarity mutations. I’m sure all except the people who want to get carried agree.

Leaving and requeuing requires me to asses the player for a while. Wasting 5 to 15 minutes every time is not a great experience.

Regular missions you are right, they tend to be easy enough to solo very often. This thread is therefore about Mutations only.

This doesn’t take into account varying mutation difficulty. One week a noob will be carried even on brutal, then the next week is with Polarity and that same noob will make life miserable to everyone else.

Plus, with good players now forced into lower difficulties if they miss few mutations, the low-level noobs will have higher chance of getting carried and be able to play brutal anyway.

They don’t restrict options on Coop though. If I wanted to deal with ladder and competitive games, I’d go ahead and play those PvP games. Which, surprise surprise, I don’t.

I play once every few months to a few times a month. The Mutations can vary that I’d like to just jump into the level I’d like and literally play it out.

Aside from all the many problems and reasons not to do this, I would point out that I would NEVER play a mutation or any co-op on any difficulty except brutal until they make the speed faster than molasses. And what of people who attempt brutal but never have a successful completion? Forced to play casual? The difficulty where the game is slow enough to play hearthstone and win mutation at the same time?

2 Likes

How this system could work:

The system is implemented, and for the next 4 mutation weeks, all players are able to play on any difficulty. After that, any player who did not beat a mutation during that 4 week period, will have to start on Normal difficulty for mutations, and work their way up.

For the players who did play during the 4 week open-difficulty grace period, whatever highest mutation difficulty a player beat during that time will unlock access to the corresponding difficulty level(s) once the initial 4 weeks have passed.

Also, once you’ve won a mutation on a particular difficulty, that difficulty—and any below it—will be unlocked and available for immediate play for 4 weeks. Every time you win a new mutation, that 4 week window of access is renewed, but not extended. So you could miss 3 weeks of mutations, but as long as you can play and win during that 4th week, your difficulty selection won’t be reset to Normal. But if you miss 4 weeks of mutations, you must start at Normal, and work your way back up; meaning you’d need 3 mutation wins in one mutation week, in order to be able to once again be able to queue for any difficulty during the next mutation week.

Along with this, mutations should have their experience rewards greatly increased. I haven’t given a ton of thought as to the exact numbers, but with a system like this, the increase should be pretty substantial. I’m thinking basically double what we can get now: 500,000 xp for beating a Brutal mutation the first time (which includes xp gained from lower difficulties).

This way, players feel truly rewarded for beating mutations, and the higher the difficulty, the better the reward. But even at Casual, beating the mutation will reward just over 100,000 xp, which is far more than a non-mutation Casual mission would reward (approximately 5 times more). The same would be true for Normal, and Hard. What this means is that it’s worthwhile to play mutations regardless of your skill level or the difficulty you’re playing on, as the xp rewards are far superior to those gained via standard missions of equal difficulty.

This will also help Mastery and Ascension leveling to feel less grindy, and once again, cause the player who is actively grinding away at Mastery or Ascension to feel highly rewarded for participating in mutations every week, whether they can manage Brutal or not.

The final thing that should be implemented is significantly more xp rewarded for beating a mutation more than once. A regular Brutal mission rewards about 44,000 xp (without the Random mission selection), so a second Brutal mutation win should reward double that—or somewhere in that vicinity—applicable for and proportional to all difficulties; this way, playing a mutation multiple times is actually rewarding and worthwhile. Currently, after you beat a mutation on Brutal and have earned all the bonus xp rewards, that mutation then becomes obsolete in terms of xp reward compared to a regular mission, as the regular mission can have the xp bonus from the random map selection, and as regular missions are undoubtedly easier than mutations, requiring less effort and less risk of having invested any amount of time only to come up short. 49,500 xp for a regular Brutal mission, vs 44,000 xp for all consecutive victories on a Brutal mutation following the first Brutal victory.

Therefore, playing mutations repeatedly should reward players for their extra effort and time, especially since many players who participate in beating mutations more than once are doing so in order to help out a friend / friends, or to aid someone who is requesting assistance with the mutation via chat.

And let’s not start complaining that this would increase the xp gain too drastically. There’s 1,000 levels. One. Thousand. Levels. Each one above level 90 requiring 200,000 xp, and none of the rewards for those levels being anything more than purely cosmetic/aesthetic—and considerably lackluster, at that, if we’re being honest—so no, this significantly increased xp gain via mutations is not a problem. Quite the contrary, in fact; it would be a good thing. More people would want to play more often, as they’d be getting rewarded far better for their time and effort.

Any ideas y’all might add? I’m sure I didn’t think of everything.

Nothing can accommodate for varying Mutation difficulty. It’ll still mitigate effects in general, though.

Generally noobs will stay lower, despite the corner case you described. We still use cars even tho sometimes people die using them.

Spend 25 minutes completing a lower difficulty. Big Deal. We said earlier it could either decay slowly over weeks or so, and yeah, if you come back after 4 weeks you will not be capable to jump into a Brutation first try, you gotta warm up anyway.

No, I do not need to ‘warmup’ at the speed of watching paint dry

4 Likes

Unnecessarily cumbersome. Discussions of how this could work are worth nothing in the face of an unstructured, unrewarding, and imbalanced mutation system.

OP touched on it briefly but the key here is restructuring mutation period. Without this first step, gating Brutal from Hard, Hard from Normal are all beyond the need for discussion - kind of like discussing how a new strategy could work for Karax before his re-revamp happens.

People are not forced to use cars, though. :stuck_out_tongue:

And even if there would be any difference, I doubt most would notice. Not only people tend to take for granted all the time that a system works properly and complain only when it fails, they also tend to blame others for any failures. If not actual noobs, they will blame their similarly skilled teammate (which they don’t know is similarly skilled) that had different expectations and routines than them.

And no one is forcing any of us to play SC2 co-op. We’re not talking about WoW, and we aren’t Chinese gold farmers.

Speaking of which, I hope those Asian sensations offer some outstanding deals when Classic WoW hits. :smirk:

1 Like

You’re unnecessarily cumbersome.

She calls me Goliath and I wear the David mask
I guess the stones are coming too fast for her now
You know I’d like to believe this nervousness will pass
All the stones that are thrown are building up a wall

I have become cumbersome to this world
I have become cumbersome to my girl

I’d like to believe we could reconcile the past
Resurrect those bridges with an ancient glance
But my old stone face can’t seem to bring her down
She remembers bridges, burns them to the ground

I have become cumbersome to this world
I have become cumbersome to my girl

Too heavy too light, too black or too white, too wrong or too right, today or
Tonight
Cumbersome
Too rich or too poor, she’s wanting me less and I’m wanting her more
The bitter taste is cumbersome

There is a balance between two worlds
One with an arrow and a cross
Regardless of the balance life has become
Cumbersome

Too heavy too light, too black or too white, too wrong or too right, today or
Tonight
Cumbersome
Too rich or too poor, she’s wanting me less and I’m wanting her more
The bitter taste is cumbersome

No, yeah I know now, know
Know now, know yeah
Your life has become cumbersome

Cumbersome — by Seven Mary Three

Also… just because you think it’s pointless to discuss this particular topic… doesn’t mean it actually is… and if hypothetical discussions such as this one are so ”pointless,” why are you here participating in the comments? :thinking:

1 Like

As always, context matters. I’d love to watch paint dry if it were da Vinci’s Mona Lisa, or Michelangelo’s Sistine Chapel.

Also… this helps to paint one of the points of this proposed system… in that it encourages people to play the mutations, not only for the increased rewards, but to maintain their ability to play at their desired difficulty, should that difficulty be Hard or Brutal. Win, win.

It’s really no different from the placement matches that are required by ladder gameplay, in its function and intent, and no one is complaining about those.

Suffice it to say—and hopefully we can all agree on this point—the mutation system has ample room for improvement, and not taking the opportunity to make the most popular aspect of SC2 even better would be both a disappointment to the co-op community, as well as a disservice to the players, not to mention SC2’s potential longevity.

I’m okay with locking brutal mutation behind beating the previous difficulty.

Except extend it to 2 weeks instead, so you would have to beat a mutation on hard difficulty anytime within the last 2 weeks to be able to play brutal.

Some people will be inconvenienced for being inactive. So be it.

I am so sorry that you would have to do a couple more games to get back up to brutal mode.

There also does not need to be increased rewards for mutation. I’m even okay with removing the weekly bonus exp alltogether. There are enough sub level 15 trolls and bad players doing brutal mutation for the weekly exp because they feel they have to.

Keep brutal mutation as brutally difficult as this weeks polarity/ trains or last weeks heros of the storm. And lock it behind having finished hard mode in the last 2 weeks. And remove any and all exp bonus from mutation all together so players don’t feel they have to do it.

1 Like