But that isn’t how it works. You get free hatcheries every time you inject. 3 larvae per inject, where Terran and Protoss have to build production structures unlike Zerg. That adds up to a lot of saved minerals.
By your definition Terran is at fault just as much. Queen → production. Barracks → production.
Then we are at a cross roads. Remove mules, remove inject and we have a better world.
Inject can’t stack, isn’t infinite range, and can’t make free units.
Injects do stack, and queens never go further than your hatchery other than for an allin, makes free production structures aka hatcheries.
Nope. You can’t have two injects progressing simultaneously. They do not stack. Mules can progress simultaneously. They do stack. Mules make free units and are infinite range. Imagine if a zerg could cast injects on a hatchery on the other side of the map and/or drop 50 injects on 1 hatchery. Imagine if inject gave free units. That is the absurdity of the mule. The only reason it’s considered normal is terrans have been allowed to get away with it for years and everyone has become numb to the insanity of SC2’s design.
Imagine if protoss could start and upgrade, hit it with a bunch of stacked chronoboosts, and instantly finish it. It would be broken AF. The same is true for the mule. Terrans can play so incredibly bad and still be in the game and even winning because mules are so freaking good.
lol what? You do realize that zerg needs to have more production than protoss or terran right?
So you can’t explain the free hatcheries, so you attack the mule more, lmao didn’t have much to say about that one eh? Imagine how dumb my logic sounds, that is how your logic sounds to everyone on the forums. Yet, it is the same thing, acknowledged by you above, if mules generate free units, queens generate free hatcheries. I don’t need to argue this further, you have yet to answer my question. Moving the goal posts to injects stacking isn’t going to deter me.
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There are no free hatcheries.
There are no free Terran units either.
You just said that the zerg gets a free hatchery when he injects. Clearly you are delusional.
I’m arguing using your logic.
You clearly don’t understand my logic in the slightest:
Batz: Free = without cost. Units without cost = free units.
Bacon: Every time a zerg casts inject, a brand new, free hatchery appears in his base for the rest of the game!
A mule mines finite minerals and no terran unit is produced without a mineral cost. It isn’t free.
Bacon dont argue with Batz. He is very bad
you dont understand how queens work to begin with and by the way your typing i can tell you have read my post about making queens evolve. first, all queen abilities do require energy. second, your just straight nerfing the queen which cannot happen like this.
third, creep tumor does cost 25 energy, and mltiplying off that tumor to others does not cost energy already. you cannot place tumors off creep. ever.
your not actually giving anybody credit either, because bringing back scourges was somebody elses idea, and i see a lot of other peoples ideas all through out your post, or the things that inspired them. i see absolutely no credit given, just a big ol 'here is my idea.
as it stands queens are virtually our only defence vs early battle cruisers, oracles, banshees,
Make interceptors free
happy this one was first so i didn’t get baited
dodged a long one too
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Mules are free. They cost energy. Energy is free (ie doesn’t require minerals or gas to accumulate energy).
excellent, excellent points.
Easy ways around this, like having tumor range increased by double, and spread increased maybe .5. It would allow zerg to focus energy on larva and healing, and really only utilize energy for spawn larva once it has been killed. Tumor spread could also be faster on the “network” where existing tumors exist where creep is already established. It would be more of a timed occurrence to fill in missing tumors (that were since killed off) to catch before creep dissipates, rather than marching a queen back to a spot to drop another tumor.
Being able to produce 2 hydra at the cost and supply of 1 would more than makeup for this, and earlier spawning pool would mean earlier speed lings to catch tanks off guard, harass walls/workers earlier than before, and keep pressure on. (This was the original idea behind the zerg anyways). I think the upgrade for Hydra speed off creep could be halved and it wouldn’t be too bad for matchups. Also spine and spore would assist in deflecting early air harassment, early reaper rush-ins without having to deploy a swiss-army knife mothership-core (the queen).
The idea is to accentuate the concept of the Swarm Host without committing to it. 10 seconds is enough time to run in, drop locust, and run back out as usual, without the added benefit of having a forever-tunnel to any side of an opponent’s base (that has to be killed, or used against you again later). It would also fall within lore and limitations of the zerg. In instances where these channels should remain open, added ability of hathery building tumors “off network” and OV buff to creep spread would make this just as possible, with the added ability of spine and spores being built on newly made creep. It would become more of an arsenal, rather than a gimmick attack.
As much as I agree on “free units”, I’ve found that as far as SC2 is concerned, there’s no way around them for zerg as long as they are timed. To remove free units would mean that Broodlings would be permanent (and to not have it that way wouldn’t be fair if they had to pay for them). I think the nerf to “free units” is to limit their application of use, much like the re-worked nydus idea mentioned above. Additionally I think with Zerg’s current units, adding Scourges as a forever-unit would make them unmatched in air battles. I thought about an idea where Vipers can become infested, and could erupt (killing the unit) while releasing 4 scourges without a timed life span (which would make the unit build no-longer free). Could be a good strategy similar to HTs running out of energy and becoming Archons, but I’m not certain how cost effective a trade that would be.
I think BC already mop up queens, but in this situation (if it’s scouted), hatchery heal to spores would be just as sufficient, and hydras being built at BOGO would be more than enough (due to cut in cost and supply). Additionally spawning pool would mean earlier harassment and pressure on a terran who’s sacrificing unit production for an early BC.
Not only on creep (not sure if I clarified) but at an accelerated rate while on creep. This would give much more worth to pushing out creep and maintaining it, and the Ultralisks could perform as battering rams, which is sort of their purpose. One additional idea i had for this upgrade is also allowing Ultras to bypass/walk over their army similar to Colossus while on creep. Looking into it, this would be extremely OP if it were a passive/always ability without the inclusion on creep, but it would have added incentive for opposing players to clean up creep asap (adding more value to the concept over all).
Technically no, since Protoss could still build gateways/SG/Robo outside of base, but is it as safe as terran proxy? No.
–So my idea here is to strengthen the protoss army at it’s core, with units that are twice the cost, but at twice the power, but having warp gates in their current capacity really makes that impossible as a balancing act. Bringing the Protoss to their SC BW days in terms of power also means lower mobility. One part in this I liked was the concept of protoss taking a mineral base closer to the opponent to act as a proxy (being able to warp units to the nexus) while also securing a base that can be protected by warp-ins. Also this would pretty much result in a pylon to be warped to (at 3-4 times the cost granted) that would take much longer to kill - basically being high risk high reward. One idea to balance this is the need to also transform a pylon into a Warp-gate (styled) pylon, which would take similar time to warp gate to transform before use - thus slowing down the Protoss pursuit. These acting as the only pylons that can be warped to, and would sort of impact risk/rewards in defending these, but not sure if that would be too little or too much.
and this would go hand in hand with making Protoss core stronger
The supply drop to wall was to offset any chance of Terran getting decimated early game with quick Speed ling push due to reduced time on spawning pool, the Mule change might be a bit too good on repairing as auto-cast since the last thing I want to do is strengthen Terran defense capabilities to that degree. It’s more of an experimental idea, but think patching up a supply depot with a drop is a good use of the ability and could be a game changer in getting attacked and not wanting to become capped by losing a supply on the bring of death.