I like using her on the zombie missions, between her and Tychus you can cover a huge amount effortlessly.
What part of “Oh and don’t try to take that negatively, cause it wasn’t implied, nor is.” did you miss??? Honestly you should probably take a good hard look in that mirror of yours when you mention ‘snapped like this’. Smh.
It sounds like you favor Nikara quite a lot and use her extensively the more and more I read your posts. Can you share how you deal with the A-move conundrum cause frankly I sometimes just set Nikara to move with Tychus out of main group control and forget her, lol.
Just chiming in to say OP’s analysis on Sam is not accurate at all.
The Detonation Charge is meant to be used with proper micro. To say “things die before the charge go off” is just callous. That’s like saying Nova’s nuke is not necessary because things die from Griffin strike before the Nuke hits.
Silly statement right? If I said that, then people will undoubtedly be wondering “why are you nuking and carpet bombing at the same time?” Well, you wouldn’t (not usually), much like when a player cast Detonation Charge on a unit and attacking the same unit - aka you shouldn’t.
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Honestly, I A-move her and she gets in trouble, but then I manually control her to get her out of harm’s way, or Medivac if I screwed up badly. Often, I deal with this by manually moving her to the back of the group, then moving the whole group. She’ll need to heal almost immediately, then, so she’ll be at the backline.
I REALLY need to start doing 2 groups, with the first being the other 1-4, and her being the second. She provides excellent healing , but if I mess up and she dies, I need to be super careful until she comes back – judiciously using Medivacs to keep my units from dying, and being careful about leading them anywhere until she’s rejoined the fight.
A-move is a disaster for her; but the restorative burst is sufficiently powerful that she usually survives miscalculations, and the restorative burst can be doubled in power with an upgrade. Her survivability is also bolstered by Tychus’s armor upgrades, which add 5% life per upgrade, and that maxes out with 25% with endgame gear.
So, I usually am fine, but if I am being lazy, this can get me in a lot of trouble; I lean on Lt. Nikara a lot.
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So more or less you deal with it the same way everyone else does, lol. Shame, here I was thinking I uncovered a secret strat to share with my members, haha. Yeah I control her the same way. Honestly Tychus gets the “low APM Commander” rap so much because ppl keep trying to make their group control that much more simpler. But I guess the added few clicks it takes to keep her in check shouldn’t bother everyone (myself included) that much.
Yeah I tend to go for the 5 upgrades asap so I haven’t had that much trouble with her going pop here and there, and I do tend to favor her over Rattlesnake simply out of choice and gaming pref.
If I am moving a massive marine around like Tychus, I sure as heck am going to support that SC1 nostalgia by moving a massive medic right behind him.
I’m used to playing commanders that see me use different control groups regularly. Usually:
Nova: Nova on `, core army on 1, Liberators on 2, Ravens on 3
Vorazun: Dark Templar/other ground on 1, Corsairs on 2, Oracles on 3
Kerrigan: Kerrigan on `, Kerrigan + any Ultralisks on 1, Hydralisks/Mutalisks on 2
Expecting to have to do all that, switching to Tychus, I usually just micromanage the location of each Outlaw as a matter of course. I really spend no more time on Nikara than on Sam (who I do have on his own control group, to be fair), or on e.g. getting Tychus back and Sirius forward because I need to rotate aggro. When I do use Nikara her tendency to move forward is actually useful, because she takes one less action than Sirius to take her share of the aggro off Tychus.
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Ha that’s pretty neat really! Yeah I have to create multiple control groups myself because of two factors, I don’t use F2 key (F1-F6 keys are custom for me) for my whole armies (it’s unbound for me to this day), and I use macros through Razer Synapse. On some Zerg I have control groups reaching all the way to 8. I don’t use ‘`’ because that is my push to talk key, lol.
Macros have helped me learn to task my units into various groups for different situations, Indeed it is very good practice for people looking to raise their APMs or adjust to better aggro or situational control like you said.
On Swann I have a 36-click macro I designed which allows me to swap between 3 Hercules carrying 8 siege tanks and deploy them for all of their shots, then airlift them right after that groups shots so they do not get focused or damaged, then redeploying them miliseconds within their shots coming off cooldown. It’s pretty fun to watch. A lot of Left clicking and hold positions integrated into that.
Using Deathball strats with spell units like Abathur or Alarak are so much easier when you have your own little rule of thumb set for each group of units within your main control group. There is no going back after you adjust to a skill like that.
It was suggested that the info in this post be made into a thread of its own, so I edited it out and did as suggested. To prevent a double post, I edited this post out.
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Well summarized, I think after some input this should be created as a new topic. Given the trend of how things get buried, finding this post in this topic, 28th down the scroll bar would be unrealistic.
Major points to alleviate Nikara for me are:
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The lack of boost mechanism reduces overall damage of outlaws at full capacity. And the addition said mechanism can prevent the suicidal tendency many complained about. Really a 2 for 1 deal.
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She promote way better cooperative play style than any other outlaw, barring Rattlesnake but only if the players are moving synchronously at all times (currently is seen far and few in between).
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Thank you, as per your advice, I scrapped the post and made it into its own thread and I credited you with the idea.
the medivac platforms are what makes tychus insanely broken. the should be reduced from 3 down to 1. even then you would still have better mobility than nova (if you take the mastery) and you also have the healing / cloaking functionality.
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Lmao that’s pretty funny, wanting to change a core mechanic about what makes a commander unique just because another commander doesn’t have the same degree of that mechanic
Nova has a 100 supply army, with many long range units, and spidermines, along with griffin air strikes anywhere she has vision on a very short timed cd, limited by minerals more so than the timer.
Tychus has a max of five combat units, none of which with greater than seven range. No permanent fire-and-forget options like spidermines (no, Tychus auto-turrets aren’t equivalent, and neither are Siri’s turrets, due to their 60 second duration and requiring 4 very expensive upgrade purchases to become truly effective; not saying they’re bad, because they’re not. They’re great. But they’re not permanently placed weapons; something Tychus does not have—nor does he need… just like Nova doesn’t need 3 charges of griffin transport)
Anyway. These are some of the reasons why Tychus has up to 3 medivac transports with relatively short cooldowns, whether with or without mastery. Not only is it part of the highly unique theme of Tychus and his elite outlaw commandos, but it’s also integral to the success and effectiveness—not the mention the fun—of Tychus as a whole.
Oh, not to mention that Tychus’s max of five combat units is time gated and each one is very expensive. You can finish most maps by squeaking by with 3 outlaws, because the length of the map / pace of play either doesn’t really allow for getting all five outlaws, or it’s simply more effective and efficient to stick to 3 (or 4). But no Tychus players are on here complaining that we don’t have a big enough army or we don’t get to field all five of our combat units or max out on all of upgrades on every single map. Know why? It’s because Tychus is very well designed. He has the mobility and longevity his few combat units require via medivacs (and longevity via Rat or Nikara as well); allowing his highly limited number of combat units (a maximum of FIVE, after a considerable amount of time and resources) to still maintain map presence—via mobility—despite his extremely small force. But this is not infallible… A player can easily get carried away with how often they use their medivac charges, and then, suddenly… when they really need it… it’s not available. Not to mention what a rough spot you’re put in if you forget to build them, or forget to build all of them, in the first place. Maybe your ally was in trouble early on and you went to assist and save them, and this distracted you and caused you to forget about your medivacs. I’m sure scenarios like that happen for lots of players fairly often. Or in other certain scenarios, like mutations, that limit your options because you can’t take your expo as early, if at all (due to environmental mutators for example), or your economy is directly effected by mutators, or you have to tech up to be able to fight off what’s being thrown at you early on, rather than expanding and getting your economy fully flowing like you would normally, which is absolutely imperative for Tychus, as his “power levels” are much more directly tied into his economy than 90% of the other commanders (I’d say that perhaps Alarak shares this design point)…
I’m sure I could keep going, but it’s now time for another beer, so… for now… I digress.
In closing, I’ll just say that perhaps you should seriously reassess your viewpoints, because honestly, they are severely lacking in relevant context. Not to mention completely lacking in alternative “solutions” with factual data points to support your views / critiques (and you also didn’t have factual-based data points to support why Medivacs should be nerfed in the first place… just said “medivacs are insanely broken and even Nova can’t do that” … nice critical thinking, man).
facepalm
Yeah, I really need that next beer now lol. ^^
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Well… you do know you also don’t have any factual data right? Like you said people can forget about them but Tychus macro and micro is extremely straightforward so I don’t think that’s a valid excuse, neither is mutations since any mutator that prevents you from getting an expansion will hurt every commander not just Tychus.
I use medivacs very very liberally, sometimes for heals and sometimes just to move out of disabling cloud or from a bad engagement yet I never have to worry about not having one to move to a relevant point because the cooldown is so ridiculously low.
Granted I do agree that nerfing it to just 1 would be too harsh since Tychus does need being able to move to places and then back rather often. If it were up to me I’d leave it at 3 but drastically increase the cooldown so that players will need to actually think when to use them instead of being able to be everywhere on the map whenever they please while also using them for heals and whatnot.
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What have folks been seeing? Have there been a lot of takers for Nikara, or Rattlesnake? I’ve been shocked to see quite a few Tychus players take Nikara. 3 games to be precise. Don’t know if my ally was considering me in mind, but as Vorazun, units that get their “1 free revive every 4 minutes” or so revive with full shields, but only 1hp, so it was nice to march them up to Nikara for a full healing, like new!
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they could give Blaze’s auto attack larger AoE/more range
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Yeah, I find this a funny one since it’s entirely up to you how low/high APM Tychus is. Try going a max DPS build and you’ll see how high APM that can be with constant ability juggling, unit moving, and flipping to base for upgrades.
I find Abathur the same. You could just mix in the right units and play him as a basic bioball with lower APM/DPS, or you can go micro-mad and rush-clear.
Anyway, I’m glad of low APM options because it keeps co-op appealing to a wider variety of players and is good when I’m feeling stoned after a rough work day.
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I probably get half taking Nikara and they’re generally the lower APM players who don’t mind taking their time completing the mission. That’s fine with me as if I feel like rushing I can push a quicker finish on most maps.
Just reducing to 1 would destroy Tychus’ mobility, sorry. His units are designed to be kept together in many/most cases.
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Sorry but why on earth would you move to base for upgrades? Control group that sh*t bro.
Agree about the rest of your post though.
I like Tychus because he does make you think where to spend your minerals, you have to make some tough choices on certain maps.
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There is a distinct difference between A-moving across an empty walkway a screen shot distance away with just 2 APM, and ‘Estatically’ spamming right click-move, A buttons, and basically covering the same distance in less time with like 80 APM.
Some actions don’t need to be had at all, and that’s why Lowko claims APM is not important. Because it doesn’t statistically factor in peoples own personalities into it. Lol.