Have the damage return by 40 or 50% not Full on Damage,
Also, you said Damage done by double edged returns quickly… I don’t 10 per sec is not Quick when small units deal Fast damage but low on health and Large enemy large on health but deal really big damage (at least 50 damage per shot lol.)
So you got two choices
Or
Choose them WISELY BLIZZARD
3rd choice is do neither because there’s no real problem with it.
Double Edged isn’t bad that of a mutator; either you use unorthodox tactics to keep your units alive or use other commanders who are better equipped to deal with it.
Doube edged mutation kills your unit way too fast man.
Some commanders that have healers, protect your army can some how endure it but still, Like 4 out of 10 of your forces Die becuase of it, not the enemy waves.
Some commanders who doesnt, are forced to watch their army getting killed.
And by unorthodox tactics , what do you mean?
Double edged heals over time so attack your targets, back away for a little bit to heal up then attack again. Rinse and repeat. You may need several groups of units to get this done as efficiently as possible.
If you are sending your units to attack and nothing else, they will kill themselves.
One time I was using Artanis with Black Death+ Double Edge and I went mass Dragoons and so Black Death actually goes through shields, but Double Edge doesnt and Dragoons get like +5 shield regen a second or something, so basically as long as my Dragoons were fighting all the time the double edge was actually helping me and keep my units alive because it would damage my shields and pay it back in HP and it would even out heal the Black Death. It was crazy and pretty neat.
Well If you get a slow enemies, that woul be no problem but if you face Fast moving enemies such as swarm of zerglings, Scouts, Corsair there is not much room to move.
And if your army is too thin (beginning or middle of the mission) even if you use such technique, your forces will die more than usual.
Also there are very little to no option to do that if you are facing Destroying objective (train) or protecting one (Evac).
This mutation has counter against almost every commander, decreasing the double edged from 100 to 50 is a good answer.
But the regen happens after you take a damage, and that damage heals until it gets you to the HP when you first attacked. I Can’t say that is a healing, also if a unit get Black death and double edged is applied, and even if you regen during Guardian shield you will take more damage from DE, so there is technically no chmage for the better.
The thing you are forgetting is that Dragoons get like +5 shield regen a second, so it was basically converting my Dragoon shields into HP which was even enough to top my units back off with full hp when they were attacking enough.
You mean Trillic compression System Upgrade?
I did not know they can convert Health from Shield to heal Dragoon. That is quite strange yet useful.
Some counters to Double Edge are: use commanders with durable units like Abathur; commanders with disposable units like Zagara, Stukov and even Raynor; commanders with decent healing like Stetmann. For defensive missions, Karax would be a good choice. Avoid using heavy damage commanders like Vorazun.
The chances of a mutator getting a big nerf is very unlikely. I don’t recall any mutators getting nerfed in the way you are asking for.
No you arent understanding me man, I’ll try to make it simple as possible, look lets say black death does 2 dmg a second and it only damages hp. Then we have Double Edge which will damage your dragoon shields when you attack. Then with the Dragoon upgrade you get like +5 shield regen a second. So my Dragoon would be losing HP to black death, then my Dragoon would attack and it would damage my shields, then the damage my shields took would get paid back by double edge, and when double edge does this it pays you back in HPs, and since the shield regen is stronger than the black death damage the net surplus was enough to keep my units topped off.
Ummm okay, I understand. So those mutations have some interesting Synergy…
Like there doesnt even need to be black death for you to see this happening, really for any protoss commander Double Edge actually helps more than it hurts because it allows them to repair their units. Like if are Fenix and your carriers get all busted up and are near death, well you can just let them go chill out and regen their shields then they’ll be to swap out the shields for HP when they attack again and essentially repair themselves.
Double edged? You mean the 10 hp/sec buff for Abathur?
This is a terrible solution. We don’t need brutal+/mutations to just be “that mode that bans everyone except Zeratul and Abathur”. Double edged is a mutator that is almost a deletion of some commanders while going as far as to buff other commander. It also puts a ban on all AoE units, when AoE units should be a choice based on enemy comp and map. These together make it a TERRIBLE mutator.
If Double Edged is bad then what does it make of ones that are much worse?
If players whine about certain mutators being too difficult for certain commanders thus demanding that they be nerfed, it would open the way for mutations to be watered down a point where they don’t really represent the challenge they are intended to be.
If all mutators are supposed to be handled by all commanders, you are going to end up with some pretty boring mutations.
It’s not very easy to think of one worse. There are very few that have quite as many flaws as Double Edged, the most notable being Black Death and fatal attraction.
Broken Mutation do exist mostly due to excessive power and or effect of that mutation (like Attraction just like Wire bender said)
If a mutation is so broken that hard counters with exception of few commanders than it is right to tweak that mutation.
I don’t know how you deal with them but you just surely know how extreme they go.
Without looking at a list or trying to think of them off the top of your head.
First, mutator is a battle condition, mutation is combo of mutators and the map so they are not interchangeable terms.
Fatal Attraction is a bad one but it’s leagues above Double Edged as far as being “broken” is concerned. But that’s one of few exceptions, if not the only one.
If Kill Bots are tweaked because Nova and Zeratul find it tough, it would make it a complete cakewalk for others that can handle it. Likewise for other mutators that are hard counters to other commanders. Then what do mutations become if they get nerfed in this way?
Certain commanders finding it hard to deal with certain mutators is an unintended consequence of co-op design. Each commander has a distinctive design which leads to unique characteristics and capabilities which inevitably results in some commanders being able to handle certain mutators better than others. This isn’t necessarily a bad thing.
The only reason I can see why you think Doubled Edged is “broken” is because whatever tactics you are using simply isn’t working thus finding that rather frustrating.
As with any mutation, I pick the best solution for the problem. It works for the most part.
There some exceptions but those were all the way extreme and justifiably deserved the criticism. It’s only those really bad ones that actually lead to change. Doubled Edged doesn’t get anywhere near it.
All commanders have options to play against double edged, mostly by not doing splash damage and some, like alarak, get hit really bad but even he is still playable with mass stalkers.
Now, black death or kill bots? half of the commanders just die, but the other half barely feel the mutators, those are more problematic mutators.