Toss hits 43% in GM

The only thing the bane has going for it is the sheer quantity. But the quantity is exactly why banelings are bad. More banelings are harder to dodge but are annihilated by splash and by that means cost inefficient. Bane nerf is definitely a much bigger deal than the widow mine. Banes were already bad so it’s nerfing zerg where zerg was already struggling. Widow mines are basically non existent in tvz excluding maybe clem. In TvP they fill some niche roles like the anti runby squad, but there are other solutions to that, such as liberators.

Zerg has efficiency plays in TvZ via the swarm host and infestor. I’ve been beating GM terrans pretty reliably with ling infestor swarm host. You just nydus and launch locusts to distract. Then you look for juicy fungals & ling surrounds. I’ve ended games with double the trading efficiency of the terran lmao. The build orders aren’t optimized either. I just yolo a completely randomized build order each game and it’s netting a ~60% win-rate. Granted it is vs the apes on na, but with refinement it be pretty good.

Well, I mean you need them against Charge Zealots. Otherwise Protoss can just run over you.

Here is Berrycrunch’s current ladder ranking for each race:

https://i.imgur.com/CcE09OF.png

His protoss is 4700 & his zerg is 4400. What a coincidence that a Terran offracing has a 300 mmr higher performance with protoss than zerg. Isn’t it strange that this number was the exact number calculated to be the advantage that Protoss has in Grandmaster?

And to think that people like Eliwhatever accused me of providing no evidence. Not only did I provide mountains of evidence, I provided predictions that have been proven to be pin-point precise over time. I win again. That’s why it’s boring to debate on these forums anymore. There is way too big of a difference in pay grade here.

I am personally responsible for boosting BerryCrunch’s Protoss into GM. My Protoss was tied to my Terran MMR and I played him a bunch. I was doing stupid things like mothership rushes etc.

Yeah, same for me. The dude was so excited to get gm with p/z but failed to realize his viewers were stream-sniping him to give him free mmr, and on the occasion when they played “for real” his mind exploded at how hard the game became and he starts crying maphacker, stream sniper, etc. There was one game I played vs him where I did mass hydra vs him as he turtled with mass lurker. Mass hydra is hard countered by mass lurker, but he struggled to win in a 40 minute long game. He’s fist pumping the webcam after the win, then I clap him ez pz with a real build and he’s instantly crying cheater and calling me names, “weirdo” etc. I thought about suing him at one point, he’s been calling me a hacker for years, but then I watched his stream and realized there is no way anybody takes this clown seriously. There was a lawsuit against Rachel Maddow, I believe, and the judge dismissed it saying the statements were so hyperbolic that no reasonable juror could conclude they were statements of fact. So applying that framework to clowncrunch, he’s firing off maphacker accusations every 3 seconds and flipping off the camera at the end of every game, and I realized the best strategy was just to ignore him. I still document the instances were he calls me a hacker, though, which is my only interest in his channel. I mean, the dude has made it absolutely clear he hates my guts. I never did anything to him except to beat him at sc2, but whatever. This is the hand I’m dealt so we’re going to play the game by the rules he’s created. Ok, sure.

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My question is why do I care about win rates in GM? I’m not a gm I will never play enough to be one nor do I want to be so its not balance relevant to my bracket. Its also not the balance of the best players I watch in YouTube content on lunch break SO why is it we should care about balance in such a small subsection of players that has zero relevance to me as a player or spectator? When I see people complain about difficulty do they ask for the other races be made as easy to play as they think toss is? no they ask for it to be harder for them??? The main barrier to entry issue with this game has always been the insane skill cap they should be making it easier for all players to play optimally not harder. For someone like me win rates mean nothing I Like changes that make the game easy to play for all races less micro easier macro etc. None of which has anything to do with GMs or bradford pear trees or anything else. The goal of balance changes should be to make the game more fun for the player base not making sure that players are correctly sorted by skill regardless of race that’s not a metric worth chasing as it brings nothing to the game.

GM is a statistical marker for the balance of the whole game. A common misconception is that “balance varies by skill level” but that’s a load of baloney because if performance varies by skill then skill is the cause, and the word “balance” contributes nothing to the causal relationship being described. It’s like saying “cars with larger engines drive faster, and that’s why I paint my car red”. “Red” has nothing to do with the relationship being described. For performance to be caused by the design of terran/zerg/protoss, it must affect all players of the sets [protoss, terran, zerg], and this is required for balance to be the cause. So, what’s happening in Grandmaster is what’s happening to the entire ladder and the pro scene.

I’ve posted numerous analyses unifying the ladder, gm, and pro scene under one model, and have shown they do in fact follow the same trends. This includes true-skill analysis of the pro scene, gumbel analysis of the pro scene, 4 analyses of grandmaster, an analysis of skill metric distortions on the ladder, and an analysis of the mmr distribution of the whole ladder. My findings are in line with other sources, including Aligulac which has been showing Protoss making monumental gains in performance via multiple metrics. It’s simply a fact, balance affects the whole player base from bronze to serral, and protoss is busted no matter where you look.

It’s also not just about you, but the health of the game at large. Having a fair game is important to keep players from rage quitting the game. Do you think it’s a coincidence that Zerg’s popularity, on the ladder, has tanked proportionally to how much Protoss has dominated Grandmaster? Protoss goes up in grandmaster, and zerg’s numbers go down on the whole ladder. Zergs are quitting the game because they play the game, get wrecked, close the game and never open it again. It’s not rocket science.

Protoss start dominating grandmaster in 2019: https://i.imgur.com/RQZFIwb.png
Zerg’s popularity on the ladder plummets starting in 2019: https://i.imgur.com/zNNQY6k.png

The difficulty of the game depends on the skill level of your opponent and the ladder guarantees you will have a fair match. How racial trends impact this is that players of one race have to work slightly harder to maintain the same rank, and this shows up in skill metrics like apm, screen movements, spending quotient, etc. Protoss lag in these metrics for the same performance level, which is equivalent to saying you have to exert less effort to maintain the same rank. So while the ladder guarantees to equalize your win-rate to 50/50, it does not guarantee it will equalize the amount of effort required to play each race. Because protoss requires the least effort, and zerg the most, players are less likely to play zerg long term due to increased pressure to race switch or quit the game via the stress created by increased effort requirements. And as this process plays out en masse, we observe zerg become the least played race while protoss dominates the upper leagues including grandmaster and masters. We also observe that the low-skill brackets of the sc2 ladder are the ones the least likely to select zerg, and this makes sense when they would be the ones most sensitive to the increased effort requirements (being unable to provide the required effort, they instead lose games if they select zerg, incentivizing them to not select zerg).

Correct. Nerf protoss so that zerg players return to the game.

Agree to disagree not only did you give no good explanation on why the things you said make zero sense at all. The things goign on in a bronze game and a GM game are nowhere near the same at all lol. You can write as many numbers on napkin as you want its still just as stupid as before bronze players are playing like 1 game a week stopping at 20 workers lol.

“It’s also not just about you, but the health of the game at large.”
Yes and what metric makes the most sense players you want to incentivize new players. Win rates in GM have zero relevance to the appeal of the game to a new player at all lol.

“giant paragraph about skill level”
I think all races should require less effort than they do now and everyone is different I’m slightly better with zerg than toss and worst with Terrans but that is with thousands of reps the game should be such that a noob can play 15-20 games and have the basic mechanics down. In my opinion this would make for a more fun game accessible to more players individual balance changes based on some small section of players that you just happen to be in doesn’t seem to be doing anything.

The pacing of the game is simply too fast for new players to want to learn it broodwar was slow but you could still make your mark with skill while the units didn’t do what you told them at least the speed was something anyone could hop into.

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Getting forum crazies to admit 2+2=4 be like:

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/QDn1YYrKhZU

This is such a great representation because as the host of the event he has to try to smile and laugh at anything, but he actually wants to strangle the old lady because she refuses to say the obvious answer which is “fish”. Brilliant. It’s perfectly analogous to these forums.

didn’t watch cool story bro XD

ZERGLING RUSH

https://i.imgur.com/sEQ6in2.png

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Gm is over 50% Toss globally now. Thanks map makers!

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Source? I don’t see that anywhere

?? Its not like theres news reports on these sorts of things. Go count.

There are sites that compile the data from all leagues. It’s around 40-45%

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It bounces around due to random chance. It peaked at 50% for EU right after the nerfs to the widow mine & liberator. Libs nerfed & showtime still dies to them in HSC because he apparently doesn’t know how to make a single phoenix. Toss still die to widow mine drops, even though they give a bright red line to the probe it’s going to hit, because toss can’t bother to watch their mineral lines so it makes no difference. At a certain point, the balance counsel has to admit it’s a skill problem. They are trying to “D.E.I” a protoss world champion and they are going to severely damage the reputation of the game in the process. No longer is it a game of skill & excellence, it’s just another sport in the oppression olympics where competitors are given a head start if they belong to a perceived victim group. So esports is now super fake and boring – winners are picked by the balance judges to fulfill some bizarre emotional need of the judges themselves, and for no other reason. Frankly it’s a form of benevolent narcissism. First, they think they are powerful enough to fix this issue (news flash, they can’t) and second they think they are all-knowing enough to decide who deserves to win and who doesn’t. It’s legit a god complex. To them, their feelings about protoss victimhood outweighs the health of the game, and they feel this way so fervently that they are willing to run esports into the ground for it. It’s legitimately insane. This is why structures of power favor competence: any structure built around any other trait erodes because only competence can keep the structure together. Thousands of structures are created every year, from shaved ice stands at ball games to billion dollar media corporations, and the ones that survive are the ones that are run by competent people. So when the people in charge of a structure start to prioritize something except excellence, it’s only a matter of time until they go bust. It’s simply reality. The balance counsel buffed toss to the moon, even though toss dominated esports & grandmaster already, and now SC2 streamers like Apop get 300 views per video when streaming SC2 but get 3,000 views when streaming stormgate. Ladies and Gentlemen, I present to you how incompetence is synonymous with destruction. Might as well have taken a sledge hammer to all of SC2 esports at this point, because that’s effectively what they did. This is why benevolent narcissism is so dangerous – it causes just as much destruction as a malicious person would, but they profess their good intentions with a smile and a skip in their step, while blithely ignoring the utter destruction that their actions have wrought.

HSC 24 final day view count: https://i.imgur.com/CAQPk8q.png
HSC 25 final day view count: https://i.imgur.com/cMZhZtM.png

184k → 104k.

GSL finals 2024: https://i.imgur.com/BXF1hlh.png
GSL finals 2023: https://i.imgur.com/A3cLaOV.png

220k → 45k. SC2 esports be like:

:chart_with_downwards_trend:

:clap: Well done, chaps. Well done. :clap:

Bonus round:

https://twitchtracker.com/games/490422
https://twitchtracker.com/games/548794627

SC2 average viewers: 1,298
Stormgate average: 1,986

Man, I was requesting these buffs for a long time, even though I never played Protoss as main.

When they got the buffs, most Protoss players didn’t even appreciate it or acknowledge it

So they will never be happy!

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This is not a place to write books. Jesus, a little bit shorter maybe!