Then Maru is not the GOAT, because by 2025 Maru would go to the military and there would be another terran who would smack him or play better. Any modern boxer would easily beat boxers from the 80th. Any modern swimmer, who always gets last place in the olympic, would be gold champion 100 years ago, because the technic improved many times since then. Why do you call it Greatest Of ALL TIME if you now start to compare players from different times, instead of comparing their results in according time?
Mohamad Ali was one of the GOAT’s in boxing history. Professional boxer would beat the @#!% out of him today, but at his time, almost no one could, same with Tyson, Jones etc. that’s why they are GOATs.
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So a whole 5 years they didnt won a single gsl season, while being OP all along ? Yeah sure
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So A WhOlE 5 YeArS AnD TErRan OnLy wOn a sInGle GSL ST?
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I think serral is clearly the greatest of all time, because he is so far ahead of all his opponents.
he is not just winning, he is winning 3-0 in the majority of his matchups.
he is the current world champion which would suggest other players are designing strategy specifically to beat him.
yet he is still constantly ahead of every opponent.
zerg as a whole was nerfed dramatically. yet he is still constantly ahead of every opponent,
when i say ahead, I don’t mean his supply is ahead, or his worker count or his upgrade spending… I mean he is smarter than each opponent he seems to fight.
he constantly has patrols exactly where the enemy is about to travel.
he constantly has lings placed for counter attacks, run bys, distractions.
many players in the GSL are capable of controlling multiple units at one time, but serral alone seems to constantly trap, deceive and mislead his opponents throughout the entire game.
he is constantly working at least 2 sides of the map while simultaneously injecting larva, spreading creep, scouting, and matching his opponents macro.
the difference seems to be his ability to constantly predict his opponents next move, and always be prepared for it.
there are RARE cases like in serral vs clem where serral does make a mistake and is thrown off by clems strange timing in the third game.
serral doesn’t make a baneling nest and this throws serral off completely.
serral still hangs on for about 10 mins using a couple queens, but ultimately loses the game.
Casters want to say things like “a chink in his armor” but this really just shows how powerful a player he really is, and the drastic difference between a game where he is mentally in control, compared to a game where he is thrown off and unsure his opponents intentions.
serral goes on to win the next match vs clem of coarse and wins the serries, and id like to remind everyone that this 1 loss happened after 2 landslide victories.
when we start looking at it like this, its very clear serral has been in controll of 99% of his matches, and is constantly ahead of his opponent mentally.
Life was the best player in the world his unit control was out of this world. Yes he was match fixing but that does not take away his ability as a player. People don’t want to talk about him anymore but he was the best player, if that incident didn’t happen Life would have won almost anything
Maru has more titles and tournaments wins, as well as more consecutive GSL wins than anyone, making him the GOAT.
I hate terrans and their crybaby mindsets, but Maru plays terran like a cheesey protoss/macro zerg hybrid, it’s amazing to watch.
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His game against Solar in TSL9 made me want to immediately queue up a game.
There were two ways to stop Life:
- nerf zerg
or
- permanent ban
(not to take seriously, just a joke…)
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Maru has 0 Blizzcons. Mvp has 1 less GSL, but a Blizzcon title. Maru is not even close to him, if you look onto his other titles.
MVP is the GOAT.
he was so dominant and so ahead of his time.
its a shame that injuries killed him, but he was the best by far, even with injuries.
he had good micro and was also a great macro player with a lot of great builds.
serral has to go to korea and win a gsl.
maru has never won a blizzcon and has 4 gsl like MVP, he still could not pass him and he has played a lot more seasons.
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They…uh…eat paper?
Why do we have an animal-themed topic on Starcraft 2 forum?
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Bill Russell has 9 NBA championships… but he was playing against unathletic white guys who were 4 inches shorter. No serious bball fan would give Bill GOAT status over MJ. Same goes for guys like MVP. Yea, he was ahead of his time, but the level of play during his time was awful.
Oh really? I wonder what kind of noobs played in GSL back at that time? Mvp won World Championship and Global Starcraft League 4 times. In these tournaments, there were no place for noobs, so your comparasion makes no sense. The fact that players are better today, doesnt change anything. Because every single legend of every sport would be trash today.
you dont really get it.
first of all, bill russell has 11 rings.
second of all, u cant compare eras, you have to judge a player in his own era.
MVP was the best and most dominant, period.
there were plenty of great players in his era and competition was harder, for example, we had like 64 players in gsl code S, plus code A.
of course now the skill level is higher, is the normal evolution, put MVP in this era, and he would be the same champion he was in his era.
without those guys, we would not have maru, serral, etc.
maru played in that era too and he was not winning anything.
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Thanks, 11 rings - makes the point even better. You never hear anyone call Bill the GOAT, because most people think GOAT truly means greatest-of-all-time. When players talk about MJ, they truly think he would be capable of dominating in today’s league. Do you think MVP would be dominating if he played in today’s game? Maybe, but considering his relatively slow speed and bad wrists back then, I’m not sure his big brain would be enough to win. Serral for GOAT, he is dominating as hard as MVP was back then against much tougher competition.
I think you still don’t get it. Look, in 1905 the world record for swimming 100 meters was 01:06. Today it’s 00:47. Anyone who trains swimming for few years, would beat that trash back there. Oh, no he would not, because all the swimming technic, which we have today (builds, game balance, maps etc. in case of sc2) did not exist back there. Serral does not have tougher competition. Almost all Korean pro’s went to military or retired. Even Maru, who plays from the beginning of sc2 and had won almost nothing, finally shows he greatness after everyone (TY, Innovation, Mvp, etc.) left the game. Same goes for Serral. You seriously think that if sc2 world champion from 2010 can’t beat Serral, that means that Serral is the better player for sc2 history book?
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I don’t think you understand how talent funnels work. In your 1905 example, the world’s population was about 1/4 what it is today. The amount of funding sloshing around sports was a small fraction of what it is today. Competitive swimmers were probably 4-5+ inches shorter. That 1905 champion is hopelessly outclassed vs a Michael Phelps, and being born in 2005 and going through modern training wouldn’t change that.
Same goes for MVP. The gap is obviously not as large, but the players he was beating were guys like Bomber, Nestea (who, by your standard, is right up there with Rogue), Morrow, Stephano, etc. The maps were tiny, so he was able to use turtle mech when his wrists gave out (which was often). You have to bake in the skill inflation that players miss out on, but MVP would not be competitive in today’s game even if he had the benefit of the same knowledge and training.
Just as a reminder, GOAT means greatest of all time. Not, the guy who won the most vs. scrubs.
serral has to go to the gsl and win.
competition is not tougher now.
back then we had a lot more players that were great and gsl was harder to win beucase u had to win a lot more games.
MVP would dominate in this era too, he would adapt, he would train like this players and he would have all the knowledge players have in 2022.
What?! Mvp was playing aginst Rogue, against Maru, against every korean who went into the military recently: Stats, Zest, Soo and the list goes on. They all were playing right from the beginning of the sc2, same as Rogue.
A baby maru, yes. Most of the Kespa players (including Rogue) made the switch to SC2 a full 2 years after MVP, so yea there was a brief period where MVP could still compete. By 2013/2014, MVP was regularly dropping matches to bums and quit sc2 in 2014 despite only being 3 years older than Rogue. He was a dominant force before Kespa players settled in, and his wins were due to superior sc2 knowledge and experience rather than raw talent or mechanics. Bombed out of sc2 at 23… cmon man, not GOAT
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