Another example of Terran beating Zerg in the late game with mass thor while the community pretends late game Zerg is unbeatable and Thors are useless.
https:// clips .twitch.tv/AcceptableGloriousPlumberSwiftRage
By themselves they are useless against a lot of units. however, hellbats are needed to support thors against broodlords. mix in some medivacs if possible. If they would have had Hellbats more of those thors would have survived. but as the battle stands. looks like zerg came out ahead
Horrible micro Lambo. He didn’t even attempt to micro the brood lords.
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How do you micro against an arc like that?
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What? Lambo dropped in supply more than Heromarine and lost the game.
all the thors was lost as well… would have came down to who had more mins left over
Broodlords are more expensive than Thors and don’t trade well in even numbers. That fight was insanely good for the Terran, which is why he won.
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I somehow beat up this mix-up by Zerglings-Banelings-Ultralisks-Vipers. Somehow…
And then opponent lost, because i started mass-hydralisk-vipers-lurkers…
Microed broodlords have up to 13 range, which outranges thors, that coupled with the broodling path blocking allows broodlords to beat an equal amount of thors with next to no casualties. It’s pretty hard to do though.
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Imagine pressing A click at the highest level of play in EU. No infestors, no vipers.
He didn’t even unleash the broodlings and get out of range of the thors, no he just went a click (he had almost nothing else to do on the map but micro)
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lol… if that was normal lategame zerg,in an even game,and not one where the zerg got rekt economically,then that fight favors zerg 100% of the time,he came out ahead supply wise,he could just remax,while heromarine has 20 supply up after 5 lib 2 thir 4 cyclone 6 hellion in production,while lambo making nothing
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If you a-move BrodLords into Thors the Thors win.
If you micro BroodLords correctly against Thors the BroodLords win without even taking damage.
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So let me get this straight.
- Zerg axmoves their BL into the centre of a preset arc of thors
- Zerg forgets to bring their ground units or infestors until after most of the BL are dead
- Zerg still manages to kill literally all the Thors.
- Terran imba?
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That first comp probably worked because of the Banelings.
- Thors cannot do anything to stop Banelings from killing other units.
- Hellbats are countered just as hard by Banelings as Marines.
- Without Hellbats, Zerglings can shred Thors.
As for Hydralisk/Viper/Lurker:
- Thors don’t have enough of a range advantage to actually cover Hellbats. If the Hellbats move forward just a bit, then the Hydralisks can attack them and keep backing up without any retaliation.
- Blinding Cloud also renders most of the Thors useless until they move forward or backwards enough.
- Lurkers also outrange the composition. Thors can kill Lurkers if they get close enough without getting blinded, but the Hellbats will usually die without doing anything if there are enough Lurkers.
Basically, Thor+Hellbat has a lot of weaknesses that you have to cover with other units. If those weaknesses are not covered, then it is easy to exploit speed+range or splash damage against Hellbats to destroy the composition.
Was thinking the same thing
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Thor Hellbat does have a lot of weaknesses. but this mixture is meant to do one thing and one thing only and that’s to beat broodlords. the thors should be aiming at the broolords and the hellbats should be microed to stay close to the thors to buffer against lings broodlings and be a buffer for banes… easier said than done
Now If you start to see infestors at that point you have to get tanks but more tanks means less thors or hell bats… best to use extreme caution once this brood/infestor combo is on the field. probably need tank ghost to fight on the infestors
That’s fine.
……………Okay, I am going to assume that you are ignorant, not stupid.
BANELINGS HARD-COUNTER HELLBATS! YOU DO NOT USE HELLBATS AS A BUFFER AGAINST BANELINGS!
You have this interaction BACKWARDS! You do not use Hellbats to block Banelings because the Hellbats are countered by Banelings. You cannot use Thors to protect Hellbats from Banelings either because their single-target, high-overkill, long-damage-point attack is practically worthless against Banelings. When the opponent uses Banelings, you need Tanks or Widow Mines to kill them before they reach the Hellbat line! No other unit is efficient enough against Banelings to cut it.
If you want the exact details why Banelings hard-counter Hellbats:
- Hellbats have 2 range, 135 health, and cost 100 minerals, 2 supply. They die in 4 Baneling hits and do not have the speed or range to avoid Banelings or kill them without taking damage.
- Marines cost 50 minerals and 1 supply. They die in 2 Baneling hits, and have a lot more speed to split and kite with.
To summarize that, Banelings counter Hellbats harder than they counter Marines! Marines can split, kite, and kill some Banelings to mitigate the damage that they take.
Hellbats can only split in some cases and are much slower to do so. You cannot split when the Hellbats are in a line to kill off Broodlings because you need the overlapping firepower.
For Hellbats to keep Broodlings off the Thors, you need them to be in a line just in front of the Thors or squished in between them. There is no way that Hellbats can block Banelings from reaching the Thors in either position. Banelings have 2.2 range, so they will nearly always damage the Thors if they hit the Hellbats.
The Thors themselves only take 20 damage from each Baneling, which is miniscule compared to the damage that Hellbats take. Banelings are not a factor to Thors.
You would also have to get Tanks if Banelings are on the field. I don’t know why you thought Hellbat+Thor would ever be effective against them, I even explained why they are not in the post you responded to.
Liberators and Ghosts are both alternatives to Tanks against Infestors, but all options have weaknesses:
Ghosts:
Ghosts themselves are unlikely to be able to reach the Infestors if the opponent also has Overseers and Brood Lords (which happens to be the case we are focused on). The Infestors would have to venture out somewhat in front of the Brood Lord’s range in the same direction as your Ghosts for your Ghosts to be able to land EMPs on most of them.
Liberators:
Liberators are kind of tricky because you usually have to pre-place the circles so that Infestors cannot get close.
If you don’t have enough Liberators or they are placed wrongly, then the Infestors can get around and cast their Fungals.
Infestors can also throw their Infested Terran over the targeting circle to threaten the Liberators without entering range. In this case, you would either need enough backup Liberators targeting the space between the outer Liberators and Thors/Hellbats, or you would need Siege Tanks to clean up the Infested Terran.
Siege Tanks:
Because Tanks have 13 range, they are not always able to cover Thor-Hellbat from Infestors. Infestors can reach the Thors and Hellbats with Fungal without entering range of the Tanks.
The Infestors can also throw a series of Infested Terran out to try to kill off your army, and since Infestors can throw up to 8 Infested Terran each, you might not have the firepower to kill them all.
Thor builds dominate against BL Infestor in major tournament
Terran’s who want free buffs/nerfs instead of learning to play:
That doesn’t…doesn’t count.
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As you can see, thors hate wide open spaces particularly against broodlords!
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um…… No. Its 1000 times better for the bane lings to hit the hell bats than then thors. Hellbat are awesome against lings and provide a solid buffer against brood lings. Nothing I said about that is wrong. and win infestors hit the field then yes you did need to start filtering in tanks. and every tank you build is one less thor or a a couple less hellbats. which is the main combination to fight brood lords…
Then of course there should be less broods so this may be ok. but now we are fighting against an infestor army and thors are useless against them