The 1st RTS game or RTT game i have ever played is Starcraft 1. In fact, it’s my 1st PC game i know. Back in the early 2000s, it is the only thing i played on a desktop.
As you played something for so long, you got some kind of prediction. For example, AI sends 4 marines so 7-8 zerglings are enough if they don’t micro and both of them have 0-0 upgrade. It’s that kind of prediction.
So if a group of big infantry like 20 zerglings + 5 Hydras or 15+ Marines come to my base, i can guess that my 6 Archons will make short work of it.
(Now i am not here to ask about how to play SC2 or Coop so don’t think about anything similar to that.)
When i come to Coop, thing is screwed up. I started level up Artanis at that time may be level 4-5. So i played DON in Normal. I got 6 Archons here, their stats look big you know, even slightly better than SC1. I thought 6 Archons will push the Zombies all the way of North. “Wrong!!!” They are not even one screen away from the Entrance.
I just don’t understand how can those slow, weak Zombies fight so well against their best counter? There is 1 or 2 Aberrations periodically but “come on” those Rejected are not that strong. Shield is even stronger in SC2 than they were in SC1.
In SC1, Shield take 100% damage, thing like Siege Tank only need 5 shots to strip Archon off their shield, Ghost & Vulture deal full damage instead of being divided by 4. Hydras are even more numerous than in SC2. How can those slow zombies kill my Archons?
Ever since then, i have never had a close-call when predicting at all. Even though i am slightly better now, i can’t help but feel this weird feelings. The feelings that what you think is right is NOT right.
They may have gotten smacked by a special infested. Hunterlings stun units when they jump, chokers deal absolute havoc on small numbers of powerful units, and overseers increase the speed and (I think) attack speed of the regular zombies. All of those give the regular minions a chance to build up and overwhelm the archons by getting a surround on them.
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I find Artanis’ archons to be quite cost-ineffective. You can get 6 dragoons out for that amount of gas. They will do more damage and are jointly more tanky than 1 archon.
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SC2 Archons are just a shadow of what they were in SC1. Meanwhile, Marines got stronger, Hydralisks got stronger and more expensive, and Zerglings now have much easier time getting a full surround. If you’re trying to judge what will happen in SC2 based on SC1, you will be wrong.
To better illustrate it, in coop, all Artanis needs to counter 20 Zerglings + 5 Hydras or 15+ Marines is like 10 Zealots with Whirlwind. Forget about fancy Dragoon micro, rushing to Reavers, or saving all your gas for Archons. Just get Whirlwind and spam Zealots. Or better, bait AI units into a chokepoint and kill them with Orbital Strike while saving resources for whatever tech you want (be it Reavers or Templar Archive tech).
You really shouldn’t bother with Archons at all until they are able to cast Psionic Storms. Even then, you should use them together with upgraded Zealots, since those will be actually able to deal with units on the ground. Archons are only good against clumped up air units, and as mobile shield batteries.
As for DoN itself, unless you want to be constantly pulling Zealots while trying to save up Psionic Storms, it’s better to just go Robo/Reavers. And on normal you should be able to easily handle it even with massed Dragoons.
Archons are good but is meant to take advantage of their high SP. Coop as a mode doesn’t really allow that to happen (unless your micro is already very very good). The constant stream of enemies, wave after wave, pushing objectives, etc. will leave your Archon low and easily able to be picked off. Unlike in ladder, the constant back and forth during harassment give much cost value to them.
Their weakness is sustained attack and is also meant to be tanking damage. You can also see this easily on any pro ladder match during late game. All of the Archons are meant to take hits and absorb damage so that high splash and hard hitting units go to town on the opposition.
So in your scenario of DoN, a map of essentially endless stream of infested, your 6 Archons would have to be micro’d well to:
- Avoid trapping by special infested. In any 1 on 1 against them, Archon will lose (especially if you didn’t pay attention to a Choker dragging down 3 of them at once.)
- Constantly rotate (again micro) low SP Archon to the back.
- Well placed Storms to thin out the hoard.
Cool unit though regardless but just needs more attention than most think (from my own experience of playing and watching people waste their Archons in engagements).
Chokers can’t pull massive units. One of the only times where heroic units aren’t immune but massive units are (iirc force field is the only other one, if that even counts)
It’s a shame archons aren’t that great in coop. It would be cool if high archons were able to regen shields mid fight like dragoons.
As far as I know they stun both. It was changed to reduce the number of Heroic they can stun and drag in a later patch.
Can you actually show some images of Massives like Archons getting ignored by Chokers? Or can someone else confirm his claims? Admittedly, it has been awhile since I used Archon on that particular map.
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I have had warbringer pulled too many times to call it a freak accident. It seems like the primary target can’t be massive, but the 2 secondary targets it forgets to check the conditions.
Ah, that could be possible. I’ve had games where warbringer was alone and never got pulled. I was going to also use ultralisks as an example but those are immune to stuns anyway
I swear except for aberration there is no special infested there.
Archons are pretty garbage in coop although they are great in multiplayer. In multiplayer archons are cost efficient, but in coop the best fight is killing the enemy without taking any damage or takes little damage, where the archons suck at doing it. If artanis have shield batteries and shuttles, archons my work but he don’t.
Dragoon reaver is a much better compo for a-move as it lacks true weakness and out-range static defense. You can take no damage to destroy enemy wave even in late game if you kite with it.
Abberations are basically melee immortals stat-wise. People just keep on underestimating them for some reason. And zombies aren’t “slow” or “weak” either, any Stukov player knows that.
Are you saying your experiences from SC1 skirmishes don’t carry over to SC2 coop mode? Shouldn’t that kind of be expected??
Archons are shock troopers, Artanis’ with their energy pool even more so. They aren’t built for being thrown and forgotten about into an endless melee engagement. Their entire point is to hit hard and leave the enemy no chance to retaliate because all they get out of it is some shield damage you can heal right up afterwards with storms.
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You missed my entire points.
Aberration isn’t Archon counter.
And Zombie are slow without creep.
2 games are different and even a wikia nerd like me know that. It’s more like a feel rather than experience.
At that time i was lvl 4 or 5 Artanis and i play in normal to get a general understand of coop.
Archon look very tanky to me, they deal aoe. Their shield can restore overtime and they got a lots of shield. I don’t forget them. I a-moved them up north and watched how they perform. They just kinda not to my expectations.
My expectation of Archon is that they can do what that LotV clip can do. Psionically explode to take out an Ultralisk 
. If only haha.