They say games like this are impossible to win

They say games like this are impossible to win, but where there is a grandmaster, there is a way:

https://i.imgur.com/SfyB7OF.png

Yep, 1 base zerg is capable of beating 4 base terran with a gold.

Guess what the win con was. Producing swarm hosts off 1 base with burrow, then spreading them out all over the map and hitting his SCVs and orbitals from all directions until he ran out of scans. No SCVs means he has to mule, having to mule means no scans, and so he was checkmated.

Even so, he had amassed a giant ball of marine marauder, but it melted to some fungals. Yep the swarm hosts were so efficient on 1 base that I afforded 5 infestors which burrow ambushed his army.

You could never do this to a protoss or a zerg. It would be quite literally impossible to beat a 4 base protoss as a 1 base zerg.

They also say you should’ve built infestors with swarm hosts years ago. I wouldn’t call a 3.6k valued army at the 12 minute mark massive but the difference was huge.

The dude couldn’t produce with his eco because I was camping his production, killing addons etc. It only worked because he was on a 3 rax and had no starport vs a 1 base nydus. He’d have to be giga lucky to have enough scans.

https://i.imgur.com/IY10Leo.png

I told you I found a way to win reliably with proxy hatch in zvz. Highest ranked opponent to get with it so far. This guy is rank 26 on na. He has a 67% zvz win-rate. Safe to say he’s a pro or semi pro.

Memeing people out of their mmr be like: https://i.imgur.com/fUbg7bN.jpeg

https://i.imgur.com/kDdXOqj.png

Kaelzy is a top 10 grandmaster. Here he is whining in another grandmaster’s twitch chat that my proxy swarmhost build is OP vs terran.

They don’t realize it’s a meme build and that a pro skilled player is smurfing at their level in order to make it work, lmao.

https://i.imgur.com/OAm6qIx.png

Twitch chat figured it out.

Pro zergs will have a melt down but these builds prove it’s possible to win with aggressive tech rushes vs terran at least. They refuse to make anything but drones because spamming “sdssdsdssdsdsd” is literally free money. They won’t do anything else until drone spam is nerfed. They need to delete inject from the game. When the tears start to fall, mine the salt for youtube content.

Who cares about swarm hosts strange builds. Ultralisk is the finisher on the last screenshot that you posted. Ultralisk is imba. I say it for 15 years and counting.

1 base hive is a branch off the same opener. Ultralisks are horrible at attacking into simcity. The key is to get the terran to attack you, into your ultralisks. A simple way to do that is to rush them out for defending a timing the terran would never expect to see ultralisks. Hence the 1 base hive opener. Yes, upatree lost to a 1 base hive opener, and it wasn’t even close.

The key is to scare them that an allin is coming. A proxy hatch does that. For the fear to be real, you must sometimes allin off the proxy. The swarmhosts tell him to produce marines off a mass rax style and to not make tanks. That’s why ultras asthe followup is so clever.

Then don’t go into Terran simcity. Just hold ur ultras next to your Swarm Hosts. If Terran will leave his burned city then finish him up with the elephants.

But you must, to assert dominance. You must put the ultralisks in the very place they are weakest, via slow overlord drops, and this will show the true strength of the ultralisk:

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2406420283?t=5h51m15s

Ngl seeing Ultralisks pop out of the fog of war that early in the game is like some sort of cursed comedy. It’s like something you should see at the end of the campaign but he’s only on like the 2nd mission LOL.

Icing on the cake that he predicted it perfectly while coming across the map but walked into it anyways xD

Yeah it was hilarious. I hid them really well because he didn’t see them until he had already sieged the tanks & committed some of his bio to the high ground. I even had a spore ready so when he did that maneuver his medivacs started dying. He didn’t get vision of the ultras until it was absolutely too late and that’s the reason the fight was so one sided. The game before was also pretty good because I burrowed swarm hosts in his main base.

I find it kinda sus, not gonna lie. Nobody does these builds because they subtract 1,000 mmr from your rank. Do you know how many GMs have 1,000 mmr to spare? There’s maybe 20 on the entire planet. There’s maybe 5 on the NA ladder. None of them do meme builds because meme builds make the game harder. I gave upatree 2 free ultralisks just for the meme of doing an ultraliks drop rush for example. I’ve skimmed through his vods too and nobody as far as I could tell does these builds. So why is he such an expert on them, right.

I got into a debate with him on reddit. He was promoting the x3d chip variants & claiming they are super good for sc2. Well I posted hard data from real world use cases, totaling over 10,000 data points and from 3 different sources, and the x3d chip variants are about 0.5% slower. I also pointed out that the cooling device has drastically more impact on performance because it affect things by 20%. The dude has an absolute melt down on twitch for hours. He repeatedly insults me by saying things like “He has a systemic flaw in his reasoning and I feel sorry for the people in his life who recieve his bad advice” etc. Meanwhile he ignores hard data because he watched a youtube video where some guys do a very limited test on a single computer that is equivalent to one data point.

The guy is intensely hostile towards me while being an expert on my builds. That’s a really strange combination.

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It’s a weird hill to die on for sure. I mean Sc2 is such an old game at this point, and so well optimized, especially compared to others games from my experience. Why would anyone get salty trying to defend their PC build? The return on investment for frames/performance is so minimal. It’s even more silly when you realize most people diamond + (probably every single pro) are running the game on the lowest possible graphic settings so they can see cloaked units. He probably just got butthurt because it’s reddit and people identify with their points/reputation (for whatever the hell that is worth).

I think his guess about the Ultras was just lucky, and the fact it was a non-standard game up to that point too. I have lucky guesses like that too now and then. We all do.

Anybody who is dumb enough to make streaming Sc2 their livelihood probably wouldn’t cheat. He isn’t even a competitive level player so their is nothing to gain but minor ego points. Not impossible but unlikely. Perhaps I contradict myself, if someone is dumb enough to make Sc2 a job maybe they are dumb enough to cheat too xD

My guess, he was probably paid to promote it. AMD was throwing ridiculous amounts of money at marketing their x3d line and that was true in general. So add in how he’s obviously promoting that line of chips, how he’s sensitive to criticism of those chips, how he’s extremely triggered when I point out marketing biases the value of products by manipulating consumer perception, and it paints a fairly clear picture. He might’ve been pissed because I tracked mud through his attempt to get some of that sweet AMD money.

Nah more like he secretly has the hots for me and so he’s memorized all my build orders. That’s more what I was thinking. Some guys get embarrassed when having to admit they like something/someone and they attack it instead to save face. If you have a guy and he’s all secretive about who he’s dating and then suddenly you figure out who it is and he’s like “Nah I don’t even like tall chicks”. That’s the kind of vibe I get there. It wouldn’t be the first time a dude was into me.

Imagine this. A SC2 streamer is immensely turned on by the rediculous displays of skill through meme builds. He’s just amazed that these things are even possible. But how can he make a romance work when the same person he is drawn to endangers his money stream by using hard data to invalidate marketing investments. This honestly sounds like The Hating Game by Sally Thorne. It’s an enemies to lovers office romance story. The main characters are competing for the same job. Initially they hate one another but ultimately find they have more in common than they realize.

That’s the vibe I get here. He’s totally got the hots for me, alright. I can spot it from outer space.

He told this story about how his father’s level is somewhere in the wall of the building where he streams. I have a million such stories. I was helping out a chick in texas, an short asian chick I met through SC2 and had a fling with during covid, remodel her bathroom. Well I am up in the attic and installing the exhaust vents and sure enough there is a random tape measure just hiding in the ceiling. Then I helped another chick pull out some carpet. Oh the floor is written, “I love you, Jane” with red paint and a giant heart around it. I could go on for hours and hours with stories like this.

Ahhh. Weren’t you on a barcode though? Did he mention it was you just from the gameplay?

Yea I deranked to 4000 lately too. I’ll see where I end up after some games. But I’m just going back to silly gameplay, unit comps, and cheeses. The game is just so boring playing normal, people are way too content just APM spamming the same sets of units. I can’t be bothered.

For example on every map with a gold base I set the explicit restriction of expanding there first no matter what. I’ve won some games against 4600 Terrans taking THEIR gold on Neon Violet Square and going proxy Tempest. It’s amusing to say the least ahah.

It’s so audacious that it makes them irrational, therefore they make bad decisions. I like to think I am strong player in ambiguous chaotic situations.

Every time the chat called me serral he had to correct them by saying “nah he’s just an ordinary na zerg” and “this guy thinks he’s Picasso but really he’s just predictable.” The only time he didn’t trash talk me was when he lost the BC to neural. He just went silent on that one. That’s a big mad reaction right there.

Does this guy react this way to every person? Does he compare them to picasso and call them predictable every game? It seems like he’s reacting in a rather unique way, if that makes sense. Combine it with how he knew what was going to happen before it did and I think it’s pretty obvious he knew who he was playing.

It was unfortunate that blizzard made endurance and multitasking the primary way to win at high levels. It’s like, I can totally grind 1,000 hours of late game practice and dominate, but it’s just not worth it. 6k mmr just isn’t worth that much time investment. It’s way more fun to just do meme builds and accept a lower mmr value. The games are just as hard, but the games don’t take an hour and a half to resolve. The way to win the zerg is to literally never attack. To optimize for maximal win-rate, you have to only counter attack, and you can only do that when he attacks. So you’re literally just waiting for the opponent to throw and you wait as long as it takes. Boring.

Funny enough, strategies like these can be kinda strong since they are so unusual that the opponent probably has no clue what to do.

The new maps will probably encourage this. There is a map that is impossible to take a normal nat expo without dying to a proxy hatch. So the protoss has no choice except to make that proxy hatch location his natural location. SC2 could be very interesting if the RTS overlords stopped kissing butt to the apm-addicted chronically whiny pro players. These people can’t be satisfied by anything so why even try. Make the maps crazy, the pros will have a melt down, but they were already having a meltdown as that’s just their default personality, so you mine it for youtube drama. This is what made Wings of liberty esports so good. Idra smashing a keyboard did more for sc2 esports than ESL ever did.

Interesting, where did you see the list for next season? I hope they are radically different. There are 9 maps in the pool right now, and they somehow managed to make all of them feel similar and stale, 9 bloody maps! I am someone who will play on any map regardless of how bad or imbalanced it is, but for the first time ever I am forced to use veto’s because this is imo the worst pool ever.

Once the new season/pool hits I will start streaming again, right now it’s not interesting enough. Stale as Jesus waffers at a sunday mass.

It was a pigsty map so I assume it has decent odds of making it in. I think themap pool should be 45 maps. Each season 9 are added and 9 are removed. This would stop apm spammers from optimizing perfect build orders for each map. Your play would have to be more fluid and dynamic. You’d optimize for maximal options rather than maximal efficiency.

People don’t realize this but in real life tactical options are infinitely more valuable than efficiency. That’s because you don’t know what’s coming next. If you optimize for the wrong thing, you are even less efficient. It’s like a bakery only selling a single type of donut because that’s their best seller.

The only place hyper optimization is more valuable than keeping options open is when a business mass produces the same thing over and over. The process is fixed and repeatable and done many times over and over. Outside of that, businesses will be constantly hiring and firing and rearranging their workforce to do new things. Workers complain it wasn’t in the job description and it’s like ok go find another job.

So one day you’ll be producing 100 units of product X and next month it will be producing 250 units of product Y and the month after that it’s a contract to code an algorithm that makes a virtual hand point at things and a month after that it’s doing epoxy floors for bathrooms in luxury apartments. Why can you do the epoxy flooring cheaper than anyone else? You bought it bulk when it was on sale and kept it in storage until an opportunity to use it came up.

Now if you are optimizing for lowest dollars spent per month then shelling out 5 grand on some epoxy that has no specific use is a bad idea. Bossman will never sign off on it. But once you have it, and at such a great price, you can find ways to use it. Everything from flooring to luxury furniture to the most beautiful front doors you’ll ever lay eyes on.

SC2 builds are a lot like that. Pros don’t create options for themselves. They know exactly what to expect and that allows them to practice 1 build to perfection. They are a donut manufacturing mega corp that cranks out an endless stream of frozen donuts that you reheat in the toaster oven. They are not that cute hole in the wall bakery that has every scrumptious creation under the sun.

I was helping a chick move. This girl lives well below the poverty line and had 4 kids with 2 different dudes. She’s a walking, talking, financial disaster. Well anyway she lives 100 miles away and needs help moving. So I make a fun trip out of it and take my truck up there to give her a hand. On the way home, I stop past a hole in the wall burger shop that advertises homemade ranch salad dressing. I order a salad and a burger and some fries. It was the best gosh darn salad dressing I’ve ever had. I comment on it and the waitress puts her hand on my shoulder and says, very proudly, “We make it in house.” Now I stop there every time I am in the area.

This is the beauty of versatility. We all stop at blizzcon to watch cool builds but instead it’s a garden variety frozen donut that we can buy a pack of 10 for $6.99. That’s how starcraft 2 died.

So yeah they need to make the map pool massive and crazy diverse. We’re talking totally insane maps and at least 30 of them. The number should be so high and the diversity so crazy that it’s literally impossible to have enough practice time, as an individual player, to prep builds for every map. The result is that players will have to buy epoxy in advance and then look for opportunities to use it. Aka they will have to create diverse strategies and look for opportunities to use them. You don’t know what situation you might be in and so you just might need a 1 base hive build.

How do they select maps for best of 7’s? By a roulette wheel. Each player has 3 vetos. After a map is chosen, either player can press a button to veto it. After 10 seconds of no button presses, the map is in the series. This adds a mind game element to the map selection by the way. It makes it way more dramatic. I can’t emphasize just how disappointed I am in the way they handled SC2 and its pro scene.

Pic unrelated: https://i.imgur.com/G6seZkN.jpeg. That’s just such a great vacuum I had to share it with you. Look at all the dust it collected. 10/10 would recommend. In the background is a 6x3 foot curly maple epoxy table. They typically auction off for 6-8 grand but you only put 700 into the wood and 900 into the epoxy. This particular one is part of a 3 piece set that includes a coffee table and an end table. Together, it’s a 12,000 set. This particular photo is before the finishing stages so it still has to be sanded up to 600 grit and then sprayed with a $100 per gallon urethane coat that will make it look like a mirror. The edge has a sterling silver inlay shaped like flowers. I have machinery that does it all for me. Why do the work myself or waste money on employees when you can design and build machines that build things for you. After you’ve had your fun, you sell of the entire process to some company that commercializes it.

It’s interesting selling these things because not many guys are into it. You get to meet tons of well to do chicks. They love the colors and the sterling silver flower pattern on the sides. You should see the way their jaw drops when you show her to the collection and they run around all giddy with their besties and talking about which ones they like the best. You ask her what she’s gonna use it for and she’s just like well I need a new office table. I am a lawyer for blah blah blah or an executive for yada yada and I really need to impress my clients. It’s always fun talking with them and hearing their stories. You know my Grandfather was the worst to go shopping with because he’d get into an hour long conversation with the cashier about something random like the price of lumber and they’d end up swapping stories about the great depression and everything in between. And if you weren’t old enough to have been alive then he’d happily tell you everything about it so you’d better get comfortable. He was a care salesman. You can see where I get it from for sure. Every sunday I tune into a law talk show where two lawyers talk about high profile legal cases. I love the drama and the politics and the mind games and the logic. I love the way they talk and love how you can tell they are about to lie because they shift the way they speak. It’s absolutely fascinating.

Well I learned my grandfather also used to listen to a legal talk show on the radio. We like to think our experiences are our own and that we are unique individuals but that just isn’t accurate. We are reincarnations of our ancestors re experiencing life for the ten thousandth time. Living forever means reproducing and passing on the experience to the next generation. That’s why I absolutely despise the eugenicists and climate alarmists and all these people who try to gaslight you into not having kids. Your ancestors story has been told a thousand times and it all comes to an end the moment you get the surgery done because you decided the carbon cost of kids was too high. Imagine being that dumb. You don’t get to pass on the wonders of life to your son and daughter in the same way your parents did for you because you let a TV gaslight you. Did you reduce the carbon? Nope, somebody else had kid that took your kids spot. The only thing you did was preclude your own children from existing. Crazy stuff dude. Reproduction is the most basic instinct and the TV can make people not do it. Propaganda is absolutely insane that it has that much power over the average person’s psychology. It’s very clear that laws need to be implemented to protect individuals from media gaslighting because it’s absolutely nuts how overpowered it is. They can mass brainwash huge swaths of people into doing totally absurd things. The most recent example is how people are freaking out about setting teslas on fire. I 100% guarantee you that if you put that person on a media blackout that they’d never think to set a tesla on fire on their own. The human brain and its psychology is not well tuned for media gaslighting and that’s absolutely crystal clear.

In the most extreme situations, when a radical ideological group controls the media, you end up with an Iran or a WW2 Germany or a modern day Ukraine. It’s obviously one of the greatest problems that mankind has ever faced. The united states was on its way to becoming exactly that, until Elon bought twitter, because the media had been captured by USAID funding to crank out ideological propaganda. These nuts were trying to get Russia to nuke Ukraine. Elon quite likely saved all of Europe from nuclear winter because he bought twitter. Then these nuts convince themselves that he’s a natsee and so they set teslas on fire. Yeah that kind of extremism is exactly what buying twitter prevented from happening on a global stage. So now you just have localized pockets of extremism where they burn teslas. That is infinity better than nuclear winter. Elon buys twitter. Twitter gets JD vance elected. JD vance calls out all european leaders to their faces that they don’t support free speech. Once again america saves europe from destroying itself. You’d think after ww2 they’d have learned their lesson about idealogical extremism but nope they be locking people up over facebook posts lmao. What can you do. America needs to focus on this continent and let europe do its thing. If they find their own way to the never ending winter then that’s their own fault.

You can extend the analogy of APM spam to ideological extremism. The world is crazy complicated and anybody who says they have all the answers is an idiot, a liar, or both. Ideologies profess not only that they have all the answers, but also that the other side is evil. Well that’s exactly how build orders operate in SC2. The “ideologically captured” elite of SC2 think they have all the answers but what they really have is an ADHD brain that can spam APM faster than the other guy. It’s the same fundamental process. It’s a narrowing of the idea space, reducing the complexity and nuance of real life down to its most basic elements, and then projecting those elements out onto the real world in ways that make no sense. SC2 has been reduced down to clicking faster than the other guy, and mindlessly grinding hundreds of hours to get hone your reaction speed to those levels. It’s reduced the wonderful diversity of SC2 thoughts down to “turtle on creep, max, wait for the opponent to leave.” The solution to this is the same as the solution to ideological extremism in real life: forcing a diversification of thought. In the case of world geopolitics, that means buying twitter. In the case of SC2, that means making the map pool large, crazy, and diverse so that there are no longer one-size-fits-all build orders. To win, you must think creatively and entertain a broad range of ideas.

Pro players retiring from sc2 probably felt like they were hopping on the last chopper out of 'nam. They will be 80 years old and will tell stories about how horrible it was – the sheer repetition, the awful base pay, the lack of benefits, the carpal tunnel, the 0.0% odds of beating Serral at spamming apm, the lights shining in their eyes from all directions on the tournament stage, not to mention dukeing it out with streamers over $2/hour in ad revenue on twitch lmao. Yeah it’s gotta feel like you caught the last chopper out of 'nam. They get their first real paycheck and it’s like utopia. Wow I actually get sunshine every day with this job and driving heavy machinery is exactly like a video game and it pays so much better. It is so funny to imagine what these guys are going to go through in the coming months with no tournament circuits announced, IEM being cancelled, the GSL being cancelled. Yeah, turns out that when you reduce the game to apm spam you make it boring and it tanks esports. Now you get to learn what life is truly like but don’t worry you’re gonna love it. It’s like Dante Alighieri traveling through the 9 layers of hell to save his beloved. They are like Odysseus as he wanders across the world, encountering endless dangers, until finding his way back home. At home, he has the largest challenge yet: his wife remarried and his estate is gone – everything he sought to regain is now lost and his rule as leader is over. He must regain all that he lost. Unfortunately you can never regain the time lost. But at least you can tell stories about how you fought a cyclops.

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Liberals going from shaming everyone into buying Teslas to save the planet, to burning and keying them in less than a year lmao. I did natsee that coming. Guess it’s not just them though. There is always a swath of humanity that will blow in the ideological wind of whatever they are told. It’s a shame because you’d think with modern access to information and social media people would be more skeptical but it’s not the case for so many. It’s equivalent to the invention of the printing press. A radical technology you’d be optimistic for to benefit the average man/peasant, but these things never end up reflecting that optimism. If it does it usually takes a long time.

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Yep. It’s hilarious and cringe and scary at the same time. I suspect a lot of it is because the EU hegemony is extremely threatened by the concept of free speech and so they see Elon as a DEFCON-1 threat. I’d bet the farm that the majority of the anti-Elon hate out there is generated by paid propagandist firms in the EU. If they classify burning teslas as a form of terrorism, and if EU propaganda firms are behind promoting this extreme anti-Elon sentiment that radicalizes people in the US to burn teslas, what happens next? :thinking:

Yeah, most people don’t want to exert the energy to stay informed and a good portion of them are simply not intelligent enough to understand it. So, they rely on someone to keep them informed. Whether they believe something or not depends on who propagates the idea.

There’s a good argument that the internet has made people dumber, rather than smarter, because there is a huge amount of nonsense information generated every day that drowns out the real information. People have also stopped thinking for themselves and instead defer to the internet as an authority. You see that on youtube a lot. A house inspector will cry about a minuscule pinhole in some stucco and now every inspector and their dog is finding 100 pinholes in every stucco wall. Ask them to rationally justify it and they will say something along the lines of “it lets water in.” Bruh stucco is concrete which is extremely hydrophoric. It sucks moisture out of the air for crying out loud. This entire stucco wall breaths air in and out with the heat cycle between night and day creating a pressure difference inside the pores which moves water in and out of the entire wall. That hole the size of a pin head is going to contribute 0.000001% increase to the water flow of this wall.

AI will skew this even more because it’s basically a search engine 2.0. You give it a prompt and it outputs the most common answer based on that prompt. How does it decide what the most common answer is? By scraping data off the internet and correlating the words.

People are going to get even dumber and more reliant on technology and we’re going to be like the Protoss in SC2 where we all use technology but have a cave man level understanding of math and science aka the things that make the technology work. This becomes scary when the average person trusts AI so much that they no longer criticize it. If the AI is ever wrong, it will behave like ideological extremism because it will enforce a uniformity of wrong ideas. The people who realize it’s wrong will be branded as lunatics and heretics, they will be attacked politically and economically, in much the same way people on twitter tried to get Jordan Peterson’s license revoked. The research is coming out and it turns out that he was right about those controversial topics. It’s hard to quantify his exact impact on the field, but it’s safe to say that if they were capable of shutting him down then they’d have done it to anyone else who also tried to propagate the same / similar ideas, so his victory is symbolic of a major win for truth and the authenticity of science. In the future it might be a lot harder for truth to win because the AI will define what truth is.

Average APM Spammer = No! You can’t just rush disruptor drop with a speed prism that early! It’s too technical of a play! You can get hard countered and die to so many things!

Me A Protoss Caveman Enjoyer = Hahahahaha disruptor go BOOM!!!

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