The reason you're below diamond is because

General Discussion
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you think you’re amazing

Run zealots into tanks from an unexpected angle? You must be amazing at the game, it’s not imbalance, it’s not that you picked the race that gets to a-move against the race that needs to siege up, it’s not that the game is rigged in your favor, not at all, you’re just amazing at the game.

Sniped the SCV building the CC in TvT because your opponent is forced to reaper scout for the thing absolutely dominating the matchup and threatening an auto-win AKA marauder proxy? You must be so amazingly good, right?

You auto won because BCs have no counterplay? Your opponents must simply not be as good to realize your complete genius of turtling with 3 tanks, planetaries with mass BC widow mine which has infinite opportunities to send your opponent back and which would require perfect play even if your opponent knew what you were doing? You must be so good, just keep going mass BC every game bro.

You went mass infestor vs mass thor because your opponent is out of options that actually win the game and is forced to build the all rounder unit, and you still lost but you got some kind of an advantage against a masters player so you must be good, right? That’s surely a good sign to keep doing what you’re doing, right?

You went tank drop rush into BC rush and killed a bunch of workers despite still being economically behind vs a masters player so you must be good because you chose to play the cancer style the second you saw the opponent was better, making you so good, right?

No, none of this makes you good. This game is an imbalanced joke. Protoss deathballs have no counterplay. Accept that and you become good. Protoss isn’t required to attack or

Viper abduct and infestor neural parasite doesn’t make you good, they’re disgusting abilities for morons to win against good players and think they’re good, even tho maru can’t play a style which wins vs zerg’s overwhelming eco advantage.

TvT is a volatile skill-less matchup where worse players can annihilate better players by taking risks.

If you win, you didn’t earn it, and need to treat it like a loss in order to improve and get to diamond. Doing roach rushes doesn’t make you good. Deathballing doesn’t make you good, you may as well be wasting your time on non-profitable casino machines.

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Hellbats are for this kind of thing. If you are going mech, get Hellbats and keep some on your Tanks.

If you aren’t going mech and using Hellbats, your use of Tanks is going to be more limited because you can’t really defend them. That is not a problem with the Tanks or the Chargelots.

I question which match-up you think this is a thing in, and what time you think they can start doing this.

Issues about whether NP can really be “balanced” aside, Terran has Liberators, Ghosts, and Tanks to deal with this scenario.

This sounds like something you just didn’t prepare for.

Being volatile doesn’t make things skill-less.

Or they can lose everything as the opponent catches their attack and kills their units.

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The stupidity OMG, Mech Does Not work against Protoss!

When is the last game you saw in tournaments mech against Toss? 2 years ago??

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This comes from someone maining Terran, peaking at 4500MMR at the end of May this year, but currently sitting at 2.5k
lmao

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"The reason you’re below Diamond is because you loss bot 2 games for every 1 you play so you can win almost every time so stoned you cant see your screen with 1/4 your max apm using whatever strat you want because your ego cant handle a single loss in any game and you don’t care about anything but the temporary hedonistic pleasure of a dopamine hit and its doesn’t matter if it comes from a fake place or not. "
The real answer for half the player base LOL

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As I recall, Gumiho played mech recently vs toss and won. I’d have to dig to find it, since I don’t remember the tournament or who he played, but it was in the last 3-4 months IIRC. Maybe Gumiho Showtime?

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Mech does work but it’s situational because if the Protoss gets Disruptors and/or Immortals Mech starts sucking pretty bad real fast because mech is slow, expensive and requires a lot of time or a lot of infrastructure to keep up with Protoss warp gate production.

With that said, if the protoss is slamming you back into the stone age with chargelots you get some damned hellbats whether you like it or not. Mines will just drag the fire into your other units and air isn’t ideal because if they’re slamming you with zealots that’s a good 10+ warp gates doing it…which means a looot of impromptu stalkers at their disposal. That leaves hellbats with your bio bois for cleanup isle 3.

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The reason I’m diamond is because I’m a girl’s best friend.

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While mech generally isn’t viable at highest levels of play, that doesn’t really change my point. Hellbats are designed for keeping units like Zealots off Tanks, and they can do that particular job rather well.

On the other hand, Bio units are squishy glass cannons that are extremely vulnerable to splash (particularly from Tanks), and often depend on micro that is not conducive to defending Tank lines. Your choices when Chargelots (or some other units/comps) attack Bio-Tank lines are often to either abandon the Tanks as you micro to keep your Bio alive; or to lose all of your Bio units to splash and then likely lose the Tanks.

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These people, find a game, oh so mech is viable if it wins one time and gets destroyed 5 times in a row later.

And also, I can tell when Gumiho went mech, Wardi said: why we go mech?, mech sucks.

And Gumiho gets destroyed like a noob in that game.

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I’ve seen TY and Maru pull of Mech against toss and 3 things I remember:

  1. They where already ahead.

  2. They played perfectly

  3. Also they where close to dying multiple times, when the Protoss took 75% of the map, and toss was A moving again and again.

(And I will give you another one, after TY won with all those 3 things, he got destroyed the next game when he tried to play Mech again, and he switched to bio for the rest of the series)

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I didn’t say that it was good. I said it was possible to win.

You pull it out once in a Bo7 because it’s in your repertoire and players don’t expect it. That’s when it excels, because most players just expect you to go bio and have significantly less experience playing against mech than the player playing mech does against the race they’re playing.

Doing it every match would be insanely stupid.

Viable doesn’t mean good. It certainly does not mean meta. As I said, something to pull out once in a blue moon to catch a player off guard or force a player out of their comfort zone. In a tournament setting, having that breadth of composition/builds makes you vastly more dangerous than if you didn’t, because it makes you unpredictable, and unpredictable is hard to counter.

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That is my point it is Not good.

(Possible to win it is relevant, you can win with the worst strat if your oponent is caught by surprise.)

And that is the problem, mech should be at least some what better in TvP.

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This is like Protoss asking for the Robo Bay to be viable without supporting units from Gateways. You’re not really supposed to go pure mech until you can afford it or are doing a timing like battle mech 2 base. That’s why your marines are so cheap and massable, to fill in the blanks until you get to late game when you can afford all the nice mech things.

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It is nothing like that.

Upgrades are different from mech and bio, and they are not different from robo units and gateway units.

How the hell you would think it is the same thing?

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Mech in StarCraft 2 is generally mech+sky, and in terms of composition it actually has more than what it should require to be viable in all 3 match-ups–This has been the case since HOTS, but the composition and its counters have never been properly balanced. Bio doesn’t even have anything that mech is lacking, except possibly the Ghost which is often still included in mech play as a support caster and doesn’t require infantry upgrades or armor upgrades to function in that role.

Comparing mech to pure Robo has always been stupid because the Robotics Facility doesn’t have anti-air, mineral dumps, an effective meat-shield, and a bunch of other things that are necessary for that army to function. Robo + Stargate is still missing an effective mineral dump and a meat-shield alongside a few other things.
Perhaps the last nail in that coffin for the Stargate + Robo comparison is that Robotics Facility units in particular are generally balanced for timing attacks with Chronoboost, so the normal production capacity is arguably too low to build a viable composition and replenish after fights when you consider the costs of the structures. Factories and Starports with add-ons are usually more expensive, but their production capacity is high enough compared to the Barracks that they don’t really share this problem.

Protoss also does not have the difficulty mixing units between different production facilities like Terran does, as the ground units all share the same upgrades and tend to be designed in such a way that mixed compositions don’t actively fight against themselves. The inability to “go Robo” does not mean that you can’t use about half the units from the Robotics Facility effectively outside of specific timings like it does for Factory play.

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Both buildings support core armies with extensive, slow to make mechanical units.

Not sharing upgrades doesn’t matter and is a horrible, stupid argument to make. You add in marines because they’re cheap, effective, fast to make and shoot up without killing your own stuff. There is basically no reason to never make marines outside of maybe battle mech and even then you should keep pumping marines for the transition.

You should also probably prioritize their upgrades over mech too since mech tends to either not care about upgrades or hits so hard, so slowly that the upgrades won’t scale nearly as well if you had just gotten +2 attack for your marines so they don’t do 3 damage per shot instead of 5.

Terrans pushing back against biomech is the dumbest, most entitled crap I’ve witnessed since the Ultralisk whine.

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The point is that factory-only compositions don’t work for the same reasons robo bay-only compositions don’t work. Both support the main army. If you find a way to make robo only or factory only work, good on you but I’m willing to bet it’s off of something like proxy robo shield battery or battle mech because it just doesn’t work under normal circumstances.

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No, no, no, no. This is just so, so wrong that it’s almost painful to read, and it’s going to bug me if I don’t say something.

The only reason you make marines with a mech oriented playstyle is early on, defensively as you’re starting your production off one or two bases - and basically only to sit in a bunker. Marines in mech are a liability and wasted supply at best beyond that point, and downright useless at worse.

Without Stim they have limited damage output, and without combat shields they have worse than paper-level health especially when you take into account the amount of friendly fire mech tends to do. That’s made even worse when you consider you’re rarely going to have medivacs to heal them as the majority of supply is taken up by tanks/vikings/hellbats/thors.

They cannot serve as a meat shield as they’re far too squishy, and certainly don’t serve as AA given that Mech has better AA options by the time that’s a necessity anyway. Both Thors and cyclones are far better, and widow-mines can serve in a pinch. Vikings can also do the job effectively.

Biomech isn’t a thing. You have bio compositions that get supplemented by mech - generally vikings/libs and mines or tanks, but that’s not really a fusion of the two styles, since stylistically, mech and bio do not mesh well together at all. That doesn’t even take into account upgrades, production costs of fielding both bio and mech armies, and compositional issues - in particular, again, the abundance of friendly fire splash that Bio would have to deal with when trying to do what you’re suggesting.

Mech certainly doesn’t and will never be supplemented with bio units outside of the ghost, because bio units don’t serve a purpose to the mech army that the mech army cannot already fulfil. Helion Cyclone can serve the purpose of hit and run, as can Banshees and Liberators. Thors, Vikings Mines and Cyclones are better AA than marines at the point that AA is actually relevant outside of the initial oracle or overlord - and sometimes even then. Tanks serve the bulk of splash and Anti-Armour damage that marauders would otherwise fulfil, while hellbats are a significantly better meat-shield than marauders and deal better with the things that tanks can’t immediately murder than marines can.

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What do you make for a mineral sink then? Hellions and Hellbats don’t shoot up and take time out of production cycles that could be dedicated to better mech units.

Biomech works. What doesn’t work is when players look for excuses to not do smart things. This is the Ultralisk problem all over again.