The reason why Terran is weak

General Discussion
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Terran is weak. You said?

No Terran is not weak.

Then perhaps Zerg and Protoss are just strong?

For Protoss, that is not the case either considering Terran have an entire units specialised in countering Protoss (looking at the Ghost). While being unable to fully heal their units to full Health, Protoss also have the worst Air-to-air combat units in the game and in contrast to popular belief that Protoss can just A-move. We have to ask the question. Can those lack luster Voidray, Tempest, Carriers, Oracle, Phoenix A-move at all? Surely, they can A-move to their oblivion.

So do the Zerg OP? Well, that’s a tricky question. Considering Zerg players
may have to micro their eco and combat at the same time and require at least equal the amount of micro-management of both Protoss+Terran.

So why Terran is weak?

I don’t know. May be if Terran have more players than trolls and whiners thing will change?

Zergs have been strong these days probably because of the same reason. They have less whiners now compare to the Terran.

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Terran units are the strongest on paper with good micro and garbage without it. What makes Terran weak is that every single Terran unit needs a lot of micro to be good.

I mean good micro with Korean top level micro .

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Each race is meant to be unique but they each still have similar game play mechanics in certain areas. Stealth/detection would be one example.

The reason I bring this up is because “I think” Terran doesn’t have it’s version of warp prism/Nydus worm in my opinion. You could make your argument that Tactical Jump or Medivacs serve that purpose but I wouldn’t agree they are as useful.

The only other opinion I have is that when Terrans take a fight it looks to be more of a commitment because they are almost guaranteed to lose libs, widow mines and tanks when they choose to evacuate.

I think it would be interesting to buff the flight speed of Terran production buildings just to see if they leap frog them to different positions on the map. I know it’s a stupid idea.

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ro4 race distribution: 1/1/2
tvz stats at iem: 56%
tvp stats at iem: 47%
overall tvp ladderstats: 49%
overall tvz ladderstats: 50%

forum terrans: terran is weaaaakkk!

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How much micro does a BC, thor or cyclone require?

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Terran requires micro. Thats the design. Hard? Yes. Rewarding? Yes. Chances to micro close to perfect humanly possible?? We dont know yet. Or once in a Maru.

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lol
You’re funny…

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Far more than Broods, Ultras or Hydras (taking similar units in comparison).

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Oh you mean like siege tanks, mines, bcs, thors, hellbats, and libs?

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Yeah, WMs, liberators, BCs, thors…

Truly incredible micro required here… it’s amazing that any terran other than maru even wins a ladder game.

I bet you even believe that trash you posted, it’s hilarious.

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These units you described alone require more micro than ANY Zerg unit.

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Might not require micro to use, but do require micro to be effective.

BC, though move and fire, will target the first thing that attacks them. Often, this is queens, which outrange them. Given the fact that the only time we saw BCs was as an - extremely expensive, i might add - early game harassment unit, and didn’t see them at all outside of that, you basically want them only to target drones, which need to manually target fire every single one.

Mines will, more often than not, fire on your own units without target firing. Also, re-targeting a mine takes a lot of micro because of the limited amount of time you have to do so (1.5 seconds) and is easily counter-microed. You need its shot to go off on a clump of targets, as it is likely that the mine will only ever get one shot off. It’s a 2 supply unit that has a short range and a lot of burst.

Tanks you basically have to focus fire in siege mode on banes for them to be effective and not a wasted investment, otherwise they will simply derp on the closest target - lings generally, and often will get one shot off and then won’t get another one as the lings run in, because of the time it takes to re-target and the minimum attack range they can fire within. Of course, thats dependent on what you’re facing as well.

Thors, you could make an argument for, but again, focus fire and repositioning (in tandem with a medivac) take micro to do.

Hellbats, being a 2 range unit, clump really well. You want them to spread for damage absorption rather than clumping up and taking huge amounts of damage from minimal sources. Basically split/pre-split micro, or paired with a medivac, can be used for pick-up +drop micro.

Libs take micro with constant siege and reseiege. Their small target radius basically means that you are constantly having to reposition them to get the best out of them. The micro is more in the positioning and jockeying aspect than actual targeting or splitting.

Contrary to what most zerg players will tell you, there is a lot more micro that goes into a terran’s arsenal than people think, even with the more positional mech units. Obviously part of that is dependent on how the composition is used and what the composition is, but you play the composition and player you’re facing. If you’re facing mech, you don’t simply throw your army into the meat-grinder through a choke point, you change your tactics and hit where they aren’t. If you’re facing battle mech, you’re facing a squishy mech that cannot really take straight up fights. In many ways its like facing bio without dealing with medivacs.

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How much micro does a BC, thor or cyclone require?

more than all your zerg units don’t worry

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Mutalisk

20 characters

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Until a moment, I was watching Demuslim, he got protossed, said that he felt like there was no place to fancy plays in tvp and was just trying timing after timing every time hoping to do some damage or lose, then he quit and started streaming wc3.Changed to Special’s stream, he was playing a tvz, he got zerged with ling bane muta on a really huge map, and his tops expos constantly bannelized/zerged every time he tried to move, he tried some attack, killed a lot, but there was endless banelings, and he got stopped, minutes later the zerg had broodlods/ultras/a ton of bane+ling and Special got destroyed while trying to run with creep on 75% of the map.He then quit and said that he didn’t know what to do, he even killed zergs third and then stopped the stream.
Now I’m watching Jason, he looks happy and just started a 24h stream, let’s see how long it lasts his happyness.

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Wait what demuslim quit ??? Btw i love how people will say protoss is not op against terran, when even demuslim at 6500 mmr says so…

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Just quit streaming sc2 at that moment,he looked kinda tilted/tired of trying and facing the same thing game after game.

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The same amount of micro of Void rays, carriers, broodlords, corruptors, ultralisk need.

You can be serious complaining that SLOW MOVING MASSIVE UNITS do not require micro. Is like asking why you can’t drift with a truck!

  1. Not the same map visibility options like other races.

  2. Weakest economy

  3. Slow moving army compared to zerg somewhat equal to protoss.

  4. Can’t defend efficiently against backstabs like protoss with recall or zerg with fast moving units without building blocking them

  5. Protoss Aoe destroys terran bio

  6. If terran army gets caught while moving and unsieged/presplit thats the end of it

  7. Mech play is super expensive and not viable

  8. Terrans can’t SCV up to 80 workers while defending with 10 ( insert similar to queen unit here)

  9. Terrans cannot reinforce the main battle like protoss do with warp prism leading to an advantage in the battlefield when the main battle takes place

  10. Terrans have to queue up units and they can never out produce a zerg in case both armies get wiped zerg can reach max supply in one production cycle.

  11. No static defences while the anti-air is actually good ground defences requires supply or planetary at which point you lose map visibility/economy.

  12. No whole army teleport abilities like nydus, recalls, warp prisms, mother ships.

  13. Terrans can suffer from friendly fire too.

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Dont you think the game due to low resources on one location favors whoever can expand the fastest ? Production, replacements. Taking a new location, emptying it fast, moving on.

when the game constantly forces you to expand as fast as possible, throw in resources to stall an opponent, while you quickly replace the losses through more expansion ? One faction gets all the benefits of expansion. Zurg main building is a universal barracks for all units, all required is some tech buildings.

Universal production buildings ?
Z

Multiple production charges ?
Z

Creep so that you can keep the pressure, reducing the need for any transportation through high movement speed ?

The focus on constant expansion and rapid resource depletion from any source favors the faction even more. They are the most favored through expansion because they are also given a new production queue, without the need to specialize.

Protoss have self-build buildings, once started. That Z worker isnt consumed in the building process and is back morphed into a drone ?! Makes ‘sense’.

That mines were given friendly fire ?! (why build them then)
That tanks do friendly fire, but lurkers not ?
Banelings not doing friendly fire ?!

Which Z units do friendly fire ? :slight_smile:

Anyway, general setting, the more a faction is slow on the map and the more the low resource setting promotes mobility, the most the most mobile gets rewarded, because it tends to snowball and there is no competition. A slow faction will have less resources and less mobility around the map.

Static defenses are of the weakish kind, the only thing without supply cost doing ground damage is planetary fortress. It has some nice aoe, but at 550/150 it is expensive and 7 range is nothing. 40/2s.

I was watching those championships in Katowice, when maru was knocked out. The general trend holds.

maps have too few resources for the terran to hold on to/survive without trying to compete.

But again, even if lurks dont and wont do FF, why banelings dont ? How is terran micro not rewarded for manual targeting of banelings ?

Why siege tanks and mines can be used against themselves, but banelings do nothing when they explode within their own ranks ? Chain reactions ? Why banes shouldnt require some spacing micro if you want to use them to their fullest ?

When Z dont do friendly fire, why do nukes do ? Just like in coop. A huge difference in difficulty.

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They require almost exactly the same as ravagers and lurkers, and require similar but probably a bit less than queens (transfuse gud spell) and require FAR less micro than infestors and vipers.