The game is dead

General Discussion
1

I am a master protoss player in EU.

i havnt played a macro game in months. yet playing atleast 30 games per week.

Literally everyone allins on 1 or 2 bases. Zergs drone count never above 40. Terrans neither. Luck prevails.

The entire game is dictated by who cheeses faster. and if you have all the right reactions and scouts. Luck prevails.

The game is decided after 5 min when the first aggresion was done. Either you defend it flawlessly and you have a huge lead, or you sub optimally hold. And you basically lost. Luck over skill.

(this includes widow mine drops and the likes(lucky mine hit anyone?))

Greed in most cases is the same as straight up macroing up. (luckbased)

There is no differentiator when both greed and standardized macro players have glaring weaknesses and windows to be punished. (luck based)

Creativity is dead.

ever since the mineral change, the game just went downhill. FAST. All options and units and timings are set in stone these days, and any deviation from that just leaves you vurnerable to a proxy or allin. In PvZ either you make your first unit an adept or you autoloss vs a variaty of allins and early aggro builds. if you build 2 tho, enjoy the 16 worker roach allin you cant hold or scout for if they made early pool with lings.

Maps are also absolutely horrendous.

Everything produced at TL’s HQ, is grief fest type of maps.

Who said every map needs a reaper jump up cliff? they where wrong, terran favouritism. (look at hots and wol maps u saw reaper cliffs there?) I bet the map designer WAS a terran.

Who said every map needs to be the same size OR have atleast a 3 building wallof requirement to take a natural. They where wrong. Overcommitting on defense is just a forced reaction if you actually want to be playing a solid game, not revolved around luck.

Who says all bases must be further away the higher basecount you get? Another stupid idea that favours certain races over others.
Protoss has the worst crumbles of that cookie with the slowest moving army. And the weakest ‘small’ forces cost for cost. Recall can be done once, Loading in a medivac can be done an infinite amount of times. Muta on a timing while defending any vision of it with queens, vs stalkers who take literally a minute to even get to the position they where supposed to defend. (why do you think most protosses go straight into phoenixes)

Who made it so certain pylon positionings cant properly make a stable wall. Why does every building have to be created in such a way that you get punished for being 1 hex off. when you try to build a natural wall off.
This is pure never tested design, and when the commentators comment on herO not walling off properly. It most likely is because he is fed up with this asmuch as every other toss.

The game is nothing but a frustration fest, seeing who can kill workers faster.

Making every slight mistake in the early game cost you the game. This does not make the game harder. It makes it act like a casino. Did your opponent capitalise blindly on a slight error. AUTOLOSS. (ling flood when you accidently made your pylon 1 hex too much forward so you cant fit another 3x3 building ie)

The only people who still enjoy starcraft 2 in its current state are griefers. You see them everywhere. hell 90% of the community these days seems to be, considering my track record on ladder.

The devs clearly abandoned paradise. The only balancing done on a payroll is done by someone who doesnt even follow starcraft 2. He just glances over the most popular opinions on reddit. watches 1 or 2 of the most recent tournament FINALS (note doesnt want to spend time to actually dive deep into the tournament brackets) and then makes meaningless changes, or completely ruins all sense of balance.

If a tournament has 40 slots, 30 protoss enters, ppl complain about protoss. If 5 terran and 5 zerg show up, if the finals are TvZ, nobody suddenly remembers the complaints before.
Even if the semis are Pure T and Z, nobody will complain, most protoss pros know playing protoss is playing rock paper scissors so they wont complain, cuz they enjoy rock paper scissors. LUCKBASED CASINO GAMEPLAY MUCH!?

The antithesis of skill IS luck. And this games balance proves it.

All skill removed in favour of being lucky. Cant get any more casino then that.

I guess blizzard just really likes the random factor where anyone can beat anyone aslong as they where lucky enough.

And before ppl talk about scouting. I scout possibly more then most pro’s do, because of this 100% allin type of gameplay i see on ladder.

My first scout is always after i build first pylon, check gasses, timings on buildings, worker amounts, if anything is off i send 3/4 workers all over the map to hope to scout intime what proxy exactly i need to be countering. If it arives too late, i basicaly already lost.

after first worker is shooed away by first unit of the t/z Protoss is blind. Adept is late (because of cyber core requirment), and loses to almost all builds that take advantage of low worker count. (proxy raxes, ling roach allin on low drone count etc).

That 1 window has lost me more games then i can count. The worst part is, you can overcommit and still lose because he decided to mass drones instead/terran can macro off of 2 bases with 3 well positioned tanks, and protoss is unable to do anything, yet he can still drop mines.

This entire circus needs to be closed down. Servers shut down, cuz what sc2 has become is letting incontrol roll in his grave.

2 Likes
2

Sounds to me like you forgot the “hf” part of the game

3

I dont like gambling.

I dont go to casino’s and feel a thrill when i press the button that makes the wheels go around. hoping for my lucky break.

I like to put in effort and determination into achieving my goals, properly. Ie lategame.

I am not having fun if i cant even play the game to begin with, because allinning prevents me from doing so. and thats all ppl seem to be doing.

4

If i understood correctly the entire thread - “the game is dead” should be changed to “protoss is dead”.

Just huge protoss complaint. Nothing else here.

1 Like
5

Protoss is removed from the game, pretending that doesnt make a game wich only has 3 races a dead game, is delusional by its very nature.

1 Like
6

Have you seen the difference between Mana and Maxpax’s 4 gate blink stalker builds? Holy cow, there’s still lots of room for improvement.

1 Like
7

Key word in all of this “Creativity”.

Creativity is up to each individual. I have more fun playing this game trying different things. Sounds like the OP wants to stick to following the “Pro” meta. I’m sure there are MANY different ways to play this game that people haven’t thought of yet. The problem is everyone first instinct is to go to their favorite streamer/pro/youtuber to be told how to play the game. Then people like the OP come in here QQ’ing about a “dead game” that turns into “cry about the weaknesses of the race I play”.

How about trying to do some new things on your own and be creative? Who cares if you lose. If you win all the time, then you would be complaining the game is too easy.

8

Holy crap they both did 4 gate blink stalker. “THE DIFFERENCE IN BUILD IS ABSOLUTELY THERE”

Like when was the last time you got a reality check. 4gate blink is 4gate blink, doesnt matter how they opened, one is better then the other.

9

Maru had to completely restructure his base lay out as the only way to defend it when it was used by MaxPax. Against Mana you only have to tax his apm and it’s smooth sailing. It’s a whole another world of difference.

10

Stick following to pro meta? I think i am the only person still playing protoss on my own terms. Why do you think i complain about creativity? Its because THERE ARE NO WAYS ANYMORE. They are all filled with trash timings forcing a specific reaction.

Saying there are tons of ways to play the game is just either blind to the facts, or delusional.

The only things that havent been figured out are how often you can cut workers and hit an advantage even more, when you hit a timing pulling workers with it. MORE CHEESE.

Units are only as strong as there stats make them to be. If they only counter 1 or 2 units, they are forced reactions if you have no other units to counter them with, but useless vs the rest.

Especially if you take the timings when builds hit into consideration. Cost to tech. Cost of unit. They are all forcing you to play a certain way. Ie. Your collosi isnt ready when his 3 rax 1 base push happens = dead. Because the numbers are overwhelming anything else you can have while teching to it.

You try to make sentry first to hallu scout everything. Enjoy ur ling bust/ reaper hellion, proxy starport hardcounter for example.

Those weaknesses of my race are the exact reason why i am here. Those weaknesses force defenses and KILL creativity.

Or you are playing greed based casino gameplay. where you can just straight go full worker chronoboost ,1 pylon into 3 base and only then gate after.

Any and all aggresive types of builds hardcounter that. For good reason. Thats why you CANT do that. Creative options are DOWN. because of this extreme example.

I am not stating you should be able to make 3 nexi without investing in a gateway first. I understand why there needs to be a stop to greed, i understand why punishing builds exist.

But to never be able to play the game properly (wich is macro) because people just want to have a quick cheap win. because there are so many windows wich deny macro.

It turned the game into a mobile game, where making workers doesnt matter, its where cutting workers matter. IN AN RTS FOR CRYING OUT LOUD

11

They are both the same build. Just because one is better then the other doesnt mean there are multiple builds.

Every single one of those builds have a reason why they are played as they are. Maybe they know the opponents they are playing against, and understand how they would ussually react to a certain scout for instance.

This allows for greed in builds where on the ladder that greed is punished.

This allows for open windows and timings to be there when ppl are known for not punishing them.

HOWEVER, 4gate blink is STILL 4 gate blink, if it hits earlier or if it hits later with early aggro added to it. it doesnt matter. The counters are still the same if you play properly.

Its like playing ladder vs the same opponent. You see his buildup being the exact same as the last game you lost vs him. Then you adapt and hardcounter him by ABUSING windows he didnt cover. And you easily win.

Just because they aim to hit at different timings or different weaknesses does NOT mean they are different builds. Because they still use the same upgrades, the same army comp, and that army comp has the same counters.

12

Yikes, if only TvP was that simple. There’s tons of variations to a 4 gate blink, some take a fast third base before engaging, some follow with collosus, others have a proxied gateway instead of a warp prism. There’s also variations on how you engage, how many stalkers you commit, which angle you attack from. It’s the most skill based all-in Protoss has with the most variation.

1 Like
13

Taking a fast 3rd base with 4gate blink is less economical 3gate blink expand. And ussually is only done when the stalkers are countered properly.

You cannot follow up with a collosi if ur committed on 2 base blink. Cost. Otherwise you are cutting into your stalker count, wich clearly isnt 4gates anymore at that point.

Proxied gateway is cheaper for warp ins and hits faster cuz of it, warp prism allows for more harrass and sight of base. Effectily still doing the same thing.

4gate blink is 4gates because you commit with 4. The only ‘varation’ in that is your ability to multitask 2 groups of stalkers.

Angles are dictated by maps, 4gate is aggresive build, should always be at natural or mainbase cuz of area you can blink into it.

There is no skill in having 3 tanks nullify your entire aggresion.

3rax wich overpoweres your stalker count before you move out.

Mine drops that can happen simulataniously when you try to micro your stalkers.

These are all set timings that need to be scouted for and 4gate changes because of the opponents reaction, NOT because of the build.

14

Maxpax is literally physically single handedly the only actual Protoss on the entire planet of 7 Billion people, that is even remotely equal to Serral in skill level.
Without maxpax protoss is dead race.

15

what about herO or Astrea?

16

game is dead because no one wants to fight your carrier high templar army? really? the whole “do not let them get there” thing. as they try to… NOT LET YOU GET THERE. because everyone knows it’s BS to play against?

OP. just no. the game isn’t “dead” because people won’t late game you, people won’t late game you because it’s not fun. end of story.

personally, i HATE games over 20 minutes long, sitting there mining out, deathball vs deathball, no. not fun. rather just not. TO EACH THEIR OWN of course.

and i’m on the other side of the fence, i don’t want the late games, but… always getting forced into them. i haaaaaaaaaaaaate it.

1 Like
17

There are also Hero and Skillous, but they are sadly not as good as Max. Hopefully not good YET…

18

The real problem with the game is that the maps are gigantic with tons of pathways and obstacles. You can outplay someone you are superior to for 95% of the game, and while moving your army past a ramp they can get an angle or catch you by surprise and the game is voer.

Which leads to the second reason this game is dead. The battles last 10 seconds. It’s not fun from a spectator position or the player position. You invest 12 minutes with 250apm to get to this point of the game, and it’s over in 10 seconds? That’s just not a pleasing situation in terms of how it feels.

Which leads to the third reason SC2 is dying, and the ranked pool is literally 1/100th of what it was 10 years ago. Wins and loses happen so quickly that winning a game doesn’t feel great. Instead, you feel the stress of having to do it all again, and maybe lose. Losing feels terrible in SC2, because you didn’t have any real fun in the final battle and you had to put in work and an attention span at every second of the game.

I keep seeing the same 5-10 names in my ranked games and my MMR is 4000-4600 on that account. If you look at the amount of games played by most GM players as well, most aren’t extremely active. They just copy the build orders they see on tournaments, and A click. The game is an A click simulator now.

All of this comes together to make a game that isn’t satisfying. Pulled off a successful widow mine drop or banshee harass? Guess what, by the time you reach their base with your army they still have the defenders advantage, shield batteries or 8 queens and they saw your army touch creep so now they pressed one button to morph a bunch of lings or roaches into their better counterparts.

It’s not even an RTS anymore. It’s like some weird tickling match while you both are mentally putting together an Ikea furniture piece. The funny thing is, you can tell that the pros are miserable playing it, too. Almost every Terran pro knows if they are superior they should be splitting the map but 50% of the time they die trying to end the game with some damage because the late game is so soul draining and boring.

TLDR: Game is dead because wins don’t feel good anymore, gameplay isn’t satisfying anymore, and the player pool is smaller- leading to almost no ways to innovate or be creative at a higher level.

19

You have an interesting definition of “outplay” if you don’t have enough of a lead to take a bad engagement and still be in the game.

1 Like
20

If you don’t like the game anymore just don’t play it. And by telling to everyone that you think the game is dead you’re not helping; YOU are actually killing this game…