Everyone is complaining about warp prisms and infestors, the balance teams are trying to nerf this protoss unit and that zerg unit, and yet the most broken unit in the game is untouched and barely discussed.
I just finished watching the 2019 WCG finals - Maru vs Reynor, and found two more games proving that battlecruisers are unequivocally broken.
In both games maru just turtles while building BCs and there is nothing Reynor can do thanks to the BC’s unmatched value and capabilities.
There is no counterplay against battlecruisers. It can do everything. It’s used in insanely effective early aggression timings vs zerg and can be massed into an invincible death fleet in all lategame matchups. It can go literally anywhere, has the muscle to cause massive damage to literally everything, and can be repaired. Its “counters” in corruptors and tempests (and lolvoidrays) cant really even trade evenly, and these specialized units risk being wiped out by yamato gun if they are caught in a bad position (not that unusual thanks to TJ and terran turtling capabilities). Corruptors and tempests are also vulnerable to everything and too specialized to do any real damage to anything else like the battlecruiser can. Only thing that stands a chance is infestors but the advantage still lies with the BC user as long as he’s not reckless and as long as the Zerg player doesnt outclass his opponent (like serral vs special, a rare instance when a BC build was thwarted). Even in high level TvT it eventually becomes all about the BC (see Maru vs TY and Keen vs Innovation in this year’s Code S S3)
Basically, the BC has a get out of jail for free card against its supposed counter play, and if it does happen to get trapped, it’s still an insane threat with its unmatched pound-for-pound strength and yamato gun. P/Z cannot abuse its slow speed, if they build counters against it the terran will just force you to base trade with him (a losing proposition thanks to TJ, BC damage output, terran turtling capabilities) and wear you thin until the BCs just move out with some support units and clean up.
I have no idea why this joke unit is not on the balance team’s chopping block or even radar. It needs to lose either yamato gun (probably wont happen because it is iconic), tactical jump, or a good amount of HP and armor.
I have said this a million times before. The only issue with BCs is early aggression in TvZ. TJ becoming an upgrade at the fusion core solves this. If compensation is needed then bring BC ATA back from 5 to 6. If not, then a TJ nerf is all that is needed.
What do the raven and thor have to do with this topic?
As long as the raven isnt turned into something that’s broken a buff to it is fine imo.
That is not the only issue of the BC. TJ becoming an upgrade doesnt solve anything. If you want to target TJ, it should be removed or at least nerfed so that BCs are not invulnerable while they are jumping out
Removing TJ completely without compensation would make BCs weak again. If you want to tie TJ’s cooldown to yamato, make BCs vulnerable before or after TJing then I am fine with that. However, restoring BC’s ATA from 5 to 6 should be done as compensation.
One way would be to make TJ a 4 sec Charge ability during which BC is a sitting duck. If it is OK for Recall it asso should OK for BC. It has too much HP and DPS to counter his counters…
How is the BC not on the chopping block? What about the infestor? Currently that single unit is the most broken unit in all matchups. Makes lategame unplayable and part of the reason the allin meta exists.
Sure, that BC needs compensation, poor unit that has the most HP in the game, most DPS (next to Thor). a long-range big-gun and Teleportation without consequences…
Maybe remove 5 hp and give as compensation fast-regeneration like Muta?
I don’t think removing TJ completely without compensation would make BCs weak again. They already got a huge buff with the ability to attack while moving.
BCs shouldnt be able to survive everything. There needs to be some weakness that can be exploited. TJ gives the most powerful unit in the game the ability to go anywhere.
BC needs a nerf, not a redesign (nerf one aspect while buffing another)
The series of events is very obvious. By the time they buffed zerg to deal with the carrier, BCs became increasingly hard countered. Simultaneously they were redesigning the raven, the most complained about caster at the time, which for the entire history of sc2 terrans late game was hyper reliant on. Then the same group of people are complaining about Thors and BCs. So what do you want a raven late game or a BC/thor late game?
Most expansive non hero unit in the game
Protoss: Oh, no! It has most dmg (lie)! Also most HP! How could it be? How indeed… Ultra has 50 less HP and 1 more armor with MORE DPS and aoe >.> Also is immune to CC and mind control. Nerf maybe?
Either are fine for me as long as they are balanced
What I dont want a lategame situation where if a certain comp is reached, it’s virtually unstoppable
This is either a troll post or you don’t understand the game at all
Ultra doesnt have more damage dealing capabilities when you take into account yamato gun, overkill, and range of 6 and attacking while moving vs range of 1
Ultras also don’t fly and cannot teleport anywhere
Because the reason EVERY PRO is complaining about Zerg late game is because it’s almost exactly broken in almost exactly the same way as the old Raven was, except even more so.
Crazy AOE spell? Check (with added utility–but damage not stacking… which doesn’t matter because:)
Energy only high damage summon? Check. Far stronger than auto turret ever was (stacks in such small space that damage per inch is almost infinite) AND affected by upgrades AND ignored armor for God knows how long.
Yeah, that is fine. I have proposed a similar idea to this before.
Unless your goal is to make BCs useless and never made again then removing TJ definitely needs compensation. If you want to avoid compensation and meet in the middle then your goal should be to nerf TJ rather than remove it.
Seriously what league are you? Infestors and BC’s TJ is put to waste. The only prob is the early TJ jump which could be easily fixed by making it an upgrade and vision on target point of the TJ
In that case in TvZ you should be complaining about ghosts. I can use as many examples of the terran losing with skyterran. Protoss has the most reason for a BC nerf if the problem is “don’t let them get there”.
The only way to counter bc with zerg is infestors. Getting spire was a mistake. Hydras and fungal could have stopped the bcs from retreating.
Corruptors have too low dps they don’t really counter BCs. They are in fact countered by the BCs because of yamato, jump and repair. Their attack/armor upgrades are also incompatible with roaches. These shouldn’t be used until late game unless the terran was using liberators.
With the cost/benefit and the general power of Protoss current air one way to balance against BC/Corruptors would be to bring Tempest in 4 Supply and VR to 3 supply.
With the coming Recall nerff the situation when a protoss is fighting mass-BC even using the additional Recalls from Mothership is mathematically hopeless…
Once a capable terran masses BC it is game over for protossers in 500-7000 MMR.
My goal is to create counterplay opportunities against BCs.
I think BCs would be fine without TJ since they have yamato and monstrous stats but if it really must be kept then at least remove the invulnerability aspect of it.
Watch serral vs gumiho in IEM 2019
Watch Time vs silky WCS Winter 2019
Scarlett vs Cure 2019 Code S S3
Special vs Ragnarok 2019 Code S S2
Dark beat gumiho’s BCs because gumiho a-moved onto creep for some reason
Serral beat Special’s BCs because Serral is the best player in the world and Special is relatively weak TvZ