The current BC is one of the most effective units I have ever seen. It has high HP, can teleport, and can be built relatively early in the game. The BC also fires while moving: this unit has far too many advantages with very little downsides. If it’s damaged just teleport it out and repair it.
There is nothing skillful about utilizing BC’s: I believe that they are more frustrating than pre-nerf HoTS medivac drop hellbats. I don’t like whining, but this unit is so stupid that I had to say something. One of the following things should be added into the game. Either:
1: Require a researchable upgrade before tactical jump can be used
Or
2: Require tactical jump to need vision before jumping
I’ve been offracing a lot and abusing BC’s. It’s so easy to control them. You may not agree, but that doesn’t mean that BC’s aren’t the best unit in the game.
I’ve been wondering, for a while, what the battle cruiser is strong vs as opposed to what it is weak against.
I feel like the game would be a lot more balanced if people cared/kept updated on what a unit is actually good vs (counters) as opposed to what counters it. What is mass liberators weak against? Stuff like that. Mass infestors wouldn’t have donated money to Zergs for years if people were simply mindful of this and exercised common sense.
Is the BC actually weak against anything? Like… if you can yamato a guy’s units and then teleport away, who is countering who? Never ending free value, for no loss, with a unit that quickly reaches a critical mass that rolls over everything, so you won’t even need to use teleport again.
Well, current list on aligulac is again at 57% in favour of terran right now and i think A LOT has to do with the bc opening, since theres no punishment, even if you know its coming. Its btw the 2nd time in a short period of time, where we have a >55% winrate for terran. Last one was like the first week of january or so, where we had around 61% for terran.
I guess the bc will get nerfed next patch, but most likely not before iem.
Yep. Units always need trade-offs - advantages and disadvantages. Strategy is created through the right balance between the two for a particular situation, accounting for how the game will evolve into future situations. The BC has no weaknesses. It does everything, and it does it with 0 micro requirements. Literally never in the history of SC2 has there been a unit that requires only move-click micro, but that wasn’t enough - it also has the most leniency in the timing of micro of any unit ever created thanks to the insanely high health and armor, and can evacuate a positioning error in a mere second with a mere click.
Terran has always had easy macro and in the past blizzard has justified this by saying Terran is designed to be difficult in other areas, e.g. in the micro of stim bio. Unfortunately the BC requires no micro and Terran still has the training wheels economy. Terran has lost its legitimacy as a valid race in SC2. It’s clear pandering to the low skill casuals and it’s going to destroy esports.
The BC is terran’s ultimate tech and they can rush to it while zerg is still stuck on tier 1, and they can do this while getting an equal economy to a zerg who cut upgrades and tech investments and focused solely on economy.
The real problem isn’t the BC. A strong BC is fine in fact. The problem is that Terran’s defender’s advantage is so ludicrous that they can rush to their ultimate tech so fast. Nerf the tank so that speed roach and baneling allin timings are a real threat, then he has to make 5 tanks and take a third before going into BCs and that gives Zerg enough time to actually get out units that can counter the BC.
Infestors can flip the table upside down and actually force a terran to consider his positioning and micro, since he lose the BCs if he messes up, but in the current situation you cannot get them out in time. This is why Terran’s insane defenders advantage is the real culprit. There is never a situation where a race should be able to get to tier 4 when the other is still on tier 1 especially with equal economies.
Problem with research requirement is that it only removes the earliest BC rush build, the 3 cc versions wont be affected unless you make the upgrade take like… Stim length… And then the BC is even more unattractive as a lategame transition.
And the problem with requiring vision is terran has scan, a reaper, and hellions that can all provide that vision easily and reliably every game. So again, no impact on the rush builds.
Also it doesnt change the actual problem with tactical jump – that it has no risk attached and allows the BC to stack free damage over time.
Honestly the only ways to fix it that I can think of are just removing tactical jump or making the BC require a CC upgrade to build. Like a third option instead of orbital or planetary except all it does is unlock lategame stuff. No terran in their right mind would build that before the lategame. But then we still have issues with the BC doing things like jumping on top of the spire and yamato sniping it then flying away.
Lol people still complain about bcs, people figured out how to defend it long time ago, watch serral… Vs zerg as opener and vs protoss, it is hard to get enough of them you will die and than stalker remax kills you since protoss will be ahead in economy and can instantly remax his army. BCs sucks… Ravens were much better !
No, just do same build. Queens already hold every single build terran can do. Just mass queens leave one ling before terrans base so youu see when helions come out to make lings. Use overlord t1 speed for free scout, if you can’t hold it without it. Pull drones behind spore and if he dives, pull them away. Don’t enage with queens stay away and try to get free shots. Even losing couple drones is okay, terran build will be slowed by making bcs and you can get fast 4rd. Bcs opener do almost nothing. Watch pros they mostly harrass with bcs and try to keep it alive. It does rarely dmg…
It is not definitely better than hellion banshee opener in hots, which had potential to damage zerg really and equalize economy. Now because + 1 range, zerg can hold with queens every build terran can do… Also you could go 3rd cc every game and hold all ins, because if zerg did roach all in you have 3 mules and he would be on 2 bases. But in lotv zerg gets 3 base when all ining and can hold counter attack with queens, so even he fails all in he is still in game and if you open hellion bashee you just lose…
If you even play the game, you should know that protoss gets fully saturated third, when terrans just finished and has more units, tech, upgrades. Just watch any hots game if you don’t believe me and than compare it to lotv. TVP
Yep. Swarm host type units are the biggest problem/imbalance. Disruptors in early game P vs P are “related to swarm hosts” and allow anyone to win, with no thought required. The prepatch infestor, just make infestors and counter everything.
If anyone is familiar with BW and the “Flash build” (1-1-1) in T vs Z of 2017 or 18, I was perfecting that exact build in 2010. That’s what it kind of reminds me of.
You’d rush out a science vessel, which had no counter, and you’d just trade energy for units all game and exponentially grow in strength, to a point. There was no smart casting in BW. There were only so many vessels you could micro efficiently before it became pointless to go beyond that number. I’d say, anything more than 6 was really pushing it, making it hard.
If you’ve gone mass disruptors, you know what I’m talking about. I think that’s a real problem with the BC. Not only are we talking about the best abilities in the game, arguably, but there is no “diminishing return.” The more you have, the more you crush, 100% of the time.
The only possible way to even come close to balancing the BC without nerfing the stats of it would be to remove smart casting from BCs.
I think it would be nice/interesting or what not for all air units to lose smart casting. I’m obviously not a micro player, but as long as we’re going to act like micro is SO MUCH COOLER than strategy and macro, how about not ignoring the units that dominate SC 2?
The units that fly and do massive, massive damage or extract massive value with little micro required in comparison to value realized. Then, when you saw units like vipers or BCs, there would still be an element of “let’s see how good my opponent’s micro is,” rather than… well… maybe I’ll fare better in the next game…
It just seems silly to play a game where micro is so sensationalized/adorned, and then watching all of your army die to yamato at the same time, and then the guy teleports his entire army within the same second. Wow… how did he do it… Wish I could do that…
Clearly stuff like that isn’t balanced, nor does it wow anyone’s “micro meter.” If a person wants to rebalance/change units because of this, that’s fine. Macro is too easy in this game. Terrans don’t even need to remember to make depots. They probably whine out of boredom. Give em something to do.
