Toss starts off with the upper hand in aggression then continues to have the advantage with warpgate, warp prism. Widow mines do not stay cloaked and do friendly fire, tanks do friendly fire, libs aren’t enough because their dps is not high enough, tanks get owned by deathballs, vikings get owned by blink stalkers. Like what is “standard” anymore. How do you beat protoss with this 1-1-1 raven into 3 rax which puts you behind in economy and vulnerable to chargelot allins and blink allins if you don’t make tanks that just die later anyways cause chargelots STILL SHRED terran to little bits.
plz fix
Economy is not equal, warp prisms do not cost gas and are made from the “robotics facility”
and here’s my rant:
well wtf that is toss is not a robot ok? maybe zealots and templars ONLY?
What else… chargelot allins with a 3rd behind it that force terran to defend from EVERY angle, that just isn’t possible. why should toss be able to make air units from anything other than a starport? thanks. also make overlords require spire :^)
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And one other problem I’m having is becoming overstimmed running from huge deathballs of pure gateway or whatever mix of robo and gateway units. Then if i lose a medivac it’s gg can’t hold, couldn’t win on 1 front anyways because toss is SOOOOOOOOOOO over powered right now.
like i can’t believe TvP was my favorite matchup in 2016. guess people just didn’t know how to play it well enough back then.
If you open dt safe every game you get stomped by everything that’s not a dt unless your splits are supreme, he has no colo left and it’s a perfect anti armor missile
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Do you turtle? And, how effective is your scouting? TvP is by far my highest win rate … Keys are:
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Scout early - 1st scv, depot, 2nd scv a-move to the toss base. The #2 scv almost always catches the probe or probes sent in to a) cannon rush, b) proxy rax, c) cause general mayhem. If the #2 scv does intercept, wall off, and send another scv to scout the toss main.
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Scout often - 4:30 to 5:30 is critical path. Get a reaper or throw down a scan - especially if there was no contact initial or initial push.
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Expand early and often - if #2 catches the probe, I build 1-rax and wall off. Once the probe is handled or dead, I expand immediately, no gas. If a probe was either not sent or caught-in-the-act, I will often CC first before rax. Then, when #2 scouts the toss main, I decide what to do after this. 2-gate? Expect zealot pressure, e.g…
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Macro, Macro, Macro - you should be at a 200 army supply (65-75) scvs at (9:30, MMM, 10:40 Mech) with at least 1:1 upgrades. Keep this metric in mind and work towards achieving this. During a toss matchup, I max at 9:30 with 5 base 8-10 rax (bio) or 6-7 factories (mech) - learning to macro under pressure is the key. Build army not buildings. SCV production remains constant. Macro answers the majority of early timing pushes and provides the economy needed to hold till the late game.
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Own the map - scout every corner constantly. Patrol a hellion (or two) or even a few scvs around the map to maintain vision.
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Don’t turtle, every skirmish you have with toss adds +1 to your favor. Weapons of Mass Distraction… the objective is to force zealots and stalkers. The issue isn’t that toss is OP, the issue is that T tends to turtle in anticipation of an early timing push hence enforcing the concept that tossmen are OP when, in fact, we have the greatest economic advantage in terms of mules.
Regarding zealot/chargelots - you need hellbats or widow mines. Blue flame toasts these animals. And, Marauders with concussive shell stomp zealots too. You just need to find the right mix of units that suits you and lean to macro.
Check out the Bronze to Masters series on youtube (Vibe) - very insightful.
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Open with a cyclone and all pressure from Protoss is gone unless they allin. Battlemech is still my personal choice for playing that matchup.
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I’m wondering if I should make a: My guide on how to beat protoss, let me know but Try the 3-1-1 into the 5-1-1. Here is the link: https://terrancraft.com/2020/01/21/tvp-standard-3-1-1-framework/
Or you can all in but there are multiple variations of the 3-1-1 
Go ahead and try it. It’ll work most of the time when utilized correctly and the transition is great!
Protoss are overpowered and I can confirm it, when I chat w/ other Terran players they mostly agree. The thing is that a mediocre Protoss can beat a decent Terran any day of the week. Terrans need to be pretty damn good to and implement complex strategies to constantly beat Protoss. I gave up and just started playing with Protoss, I mean WTF is the point of playing on the underpowered team. Its not even fun to play againt Protoss as a Terran, it just an whooping waiting to happen 9 out 10 times.
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This thread is so ridiculous. Whining about balance as the reason you’re not GM. It’s funny I follow some twitch streamers and in a year they’ve raised their Terran MMR by 1000 just play playing regularly on stream. Zerg girl used to be like 3K last year with Terran and is now 4.2-4.4k mmr.
Balance is not the reason you’re losing and TVP is pretty balanced if not Terran favored. Showtime (a 7K mmr protoss) in a group with 3 other highly skilled terrans went 0-5 in matches vs ty, maru, Clem. The games balance is fine just learn to play.
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I can confirm that Terran mech is totally ruined by skytoss in this current patch.
Raven and Liberator need to be buffed, it would be much better to remove the hack of Raven and let Raven to send 4 flying SVC to repair the mech team. Also, Liberator armor increase by 2 would let it surviving in skytoss fight.
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I was up to around 5k mmr before and coming back and playing random for fun after a couple year break this mu is horrible too many ways to out right lose and your pretty much forced into a macro game too easy to defend all ins as protoss like unless your the top of the ladder maybe terran is worth playing but the race it self sucks they even removed terrans late game ravens for whatever these things are now which i find funny they removed them cause people complained but dodging seekers is no different then dodging biles or disruptor shots casting spells has always been easier then reacting and dodging them like if you want a comparison try to play only templars vs mass ghost and just try to dodge the emps .
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Macro ground mech armies suck in this matchup, mostly because the tanks become dead supply vs the Toss airball. Mass Cyclones sometimes can do pretty well until they get countered by mass air or Disruptors. “Best” strats are to play micro MMM like a madman, then add Libs with ranged upgrade in mid-late game; or simply turtle into mass BCs like a Bronze and hope the Toss gets tilted dealing with Teleport harass. This matchup does feel rigged in favor of Protoss, even if it’s technically balanced at the high level.
But Terran mech is too expansive even when compared to skytoss. And the recovery speed of toss army is much higher than Terran mech in late game due to Chrono boost.
Tips：Tank is useful in TvT but does nothing in other situations, liberator would be a better choice but it is more expansive.
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Back in 2016 I think there were no shield batteries, which made the Protoss completely overpowered. If Toss positions their army well enough, moves it around the map, he just gains free control. And in case of some drops inside the main, they can basetrade or warp in some units or recall wtf. It’s so much easier as Protoss when you just know how to play that race in TvP. Are we all supposed to play Zerg and Protoss, so that there is no variety? This is absurd what Protoss is doing just by a-moving. While Terran has to do insane micro. I’m D2 Terran player. I just don’t know what to say. But Protoss sometimes makes me hesitate if quiting SC2 would be a good idea. Chargelots are so annoying. Terrans should open some very good one base build or sth. Actually there are ways to succeed in killing Protoss, but they are pretty tough for the Terran and if Protoss just scouts it, they can prepare perfect counter. I would kind of play mass marauder and anti air turrets vs Toss. It’s such a weird matchup. Too many broken strategies.
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Anyone enjoys being helpless against blink stalkers or fighting against Skytoss? Also, getting rekt by DTs or having your bio army cleaned by storms?
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Well zerglings, banelings and lurkers will kill em. Course theres jo way to stop carriers but yea zerg does ok against that other stuff.
bronze-gold for terran is a complete disaster. You can see through apm, protoss and zerg players are always matched against terran with x2 or x3 of their apm to get 50% win ratio. No sense. They balance on the top tier, but is about 5% of population, no sense.
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