We already have an Elite Division of Terran led by Nova with usage of high tech with improve strength in health and armor.
Then what about a cmd that use Top tier Mercenary, what would they do differently and how can fit to coop ? And which characters would be best to be their cmd, Tosh or Valerian ?
P/s: we already see the low tier that is Han’s Unit in Coop and the only type left are Raynor’s high tier merc in WoL.
Confused, does Tychus not count? Just because they are called outlaws, it doesn’t mean the nature of their work isn’t merc work?
This definitely already exists in HH and Tychus. And gameplay-wise, how are you imagining this being and different than Nova? Reskinning or reflavoring “elite force commander” doesn’t necessarily make a new commander.
I imagine they are referring to the mercenaries that you can hier in WoL. If those units were to be used in coop, I’d expect them on Tosh more than any other unreleased character.
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There is no Jackson’s Revenge or Loki model battlecruisers for commanders yet.
If we get Warfield, He shoukd have Gorgon as a unit, not his calldown,
I am definitely more focused on the concept and mechanic than adding unused units.
What did you have in mind OP concept wise? Cuz honestly, between HH’s cheaper units en masse, Tychus’s Outlaw hero with gear purchase, and Mengsk’s Royal Guard, there ain’t much room for just another “merc compound, buy your Loki, Gorgon, or JR here”.
That kind of repetitiveness would not be very interesting or unique. What did you have in mind if anything?
There’s those Cyber cats too that are unused, but im not sure what commander they would be suited with. maybe Tosh with some black themed War Panther themes going on for him? A covert ops theme with him being more “ambush to kill” and damage when breaking stealth could be fun for him. Maybe he could sneak inside of base but attacks made could break his super stealth as ambushes, giving him moments to snipe key targets while the Cyber panthers could thrash targets around and stun them while his spectres attacked and mind crushed. Who knows though.
But yeah back on topic, all the mercs are basically already taken other than Loki and the Jackson Revenge battlecruisers. Maybe the cool looking Elite marines. I could see them maybe fitting into Tosh at the moment. But i’m not sure how you could make them flavory distinct from Nova/Raynor/Tychus. Though i certainly wouldn’t say no to a Tosh hero with Spectres.
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What’s the name of the mercenary guy that mercs are hired from in the campaign? He’s also the narrator for Oblivion Express. He’d be a possibility.
In any case, I’ve wanted a commander where the bulk of their forces are powerful, timed units. Mercenaries would match the theme pretty well. Have a top bar similar to Nova’s where each ability has a relatively short cool down but costs minerals to use. The abilities would summon powerful mercenary forces that have a duration (“contract”). Each unit would have different kits to be outfitted with (sort of like Zeratul) that would change their cost and abilities on the field.
Infantry (basic) - summons 12 elite marines
Infantry (anti-personnel) 6 elite marines and 6 elite firebats
Infantry (anti-armor) 6 elite marines and 6 elite marauders
Mech (basic) 8 elite goliaths
Mech (siege division) 6 elite siege tanks
Mech (assault division) 8 elite diamondbacks
Air Force (basic) 4 elite wraiths and 4 elite banshees
Air Force (air support) 8 elite vikings
Air Force (capital) 2 elite battlecruisers
Support (basic) 4 elite medics
Support (tech) 4 elite science vessels
Support (specialist) 4 elite specters
The commander’s buildings would 1) give access to the various mercenary forces, and 2) build a couple of different mechanical units that are supportive in nature. Widow mines and Ravens come to mind, but the lightning cats from the campaign could be used too.
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Well, I’m obviously not the OP, but I’ve been thinking of a Graven Hill commander features standard WoL merc units but with a touch of RPG elements. Like your merc units can be upgraded individually by spending experience points to gain increased stats just like how you leveling your character in MMORPG games.
Another thing we can go for is to have these merc units roster to represent how mercenary works in fiction, add in some human gimmicks like units pick up fallen comrade’s weapon when things go south, etc. etc…
If only I really know how to use the editor… sigh.
So even then, basically Arcturisk Mengsks royal guard and troopers with a mix of dehaka?
I mean i wouldn’t mind it. Or maybe a cross theme. Like honestly for stetman the last thing i thought of a terran researcher would have been mecha zerg. Maybe i guess i thought a science vessel starport hero. We also don’t have a permanant flying hero or Marine Raynor unit but those are open. Still though I’d be up for fun commanders.
Or a zerg/protoss or Tosh tychus. Or maybe even crossing it with a multi unit hybrid commander. Say, a outlaw Armada using say spectres, ghosts, nukes, mercenaries and psionically enhanced shadow templar and twilight archons instead of dark archons with Terrazine who could cause enemy units to give vision. Possess minor units as spys who could then open up teleportation tethers or plant c4 explosives on enemy bases or sabotage or commander a more powerful unit.
Who knows, vegas timed mind control is pretty fun to get rid of a deadly unit. Or what about a insanity ability that doesn’t grany you the unit but makes it uncontrollably attack everything near it with a frenzy of terrzaine fueled attacks? That could be fun.
For “elite to hero level” Terran units, we already have:
Nova
Tychus
HH Horner units
Mengk’s Royal Guard
If we want to stretch our definition of “elite”, Swann specializes in mech, so his units get +20% hp and build 20% faster. Raynor’s infantry build 50% faster, come with Stim Pack researched, and it’s an improved version at that.
However, one thing I noticed we are missing on the Terran side are CDs on timed life that cannot be directly controlled.
On the Zerg side, we have Mengk’s Wolves Of War CD. On the Protoss side, we have Zeratul’s various Legion CDs. Be neat to see that for Terran as well. It can be like Zeratul’s where you can set a waypoint, or Mengks where the enthralled Zerg are completely wild and free.
We don’t have hard definitions, but I’d imagine even though the mercs in WoL are limited, they’re still more than one unit per type (which Nova seems to fill that role, even if not exactly the same match of unit types).
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I guess maybe that’s what OP meant.
Personally, I am not a fan of these timed mechanic. They are really just calldowns, which by coop term means “delete x button”, just in the form of merc units.
So if we are to utility the “yet to be used times Terran” idea, then fundamentally we are discussing and asking for a “delete button only commander”. And that doesn’t sound fun at all.
I was toying around with a Graven Hill concept as well, while he won’t be the next commander I’ll build in the editor, I do have some inspiration for him.
One of the themes we don’t really have is a skirmish/ambush commander, I’d like to kit him out for that.
His standing army would consist of various kiting units such as:
Vultures, Helions , Diamondbacks, cyclones and probably some new units. Was thinking of a buggy with some dudes throwing molotov that can attack while moving for example.
This is tactic would be supported by various abilities that suppress enemies for a short while in a way, think of range decrease or slows. And ambush mechanics such as temporary stealth combined with bursts of speed.
Diversion tactics with taunts forcing enemies to move to a certain direction or smoke bombs to obscure your units (dodge chance/untargetable/stealth/ect.)
Lastly he has been known to call for help from contracts, basically he gets a merc compound where he can purchase contracts. These contracts will buy him a specialised group of units for a certain duration. These groups can be custom designed before the contract is made, after a while a drop comes with the requested unit. After their duration is up and they are out of combat a dropship will come pick them up again, unless you pay a fee to extend the contract (toggle auto cast). Contract might be more expensive depending on the amount of units lost from that squad.
The idea is to use the mercs as both specialised tools to deal with a comp and as a diversion when assaulting a base for example. This combined with the disruptive abilities should allow for quick and safe jabs to whittle down or annihilate enemy forces without taking too much casualties.
Would be a more difficult micro heavy commander.
Keep in mind that this is a very early draft. Comments and feedback is appreciated.
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Keep up the good work. We look forward to seen him action
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Tell that to stukov barracks
What he was referring to is non-controllable units. So it’s nothing like Stukov since you can absolutely micro them to get way higher potential out.
I admire the spirit but such a concept is not recommended until the very nature of the Co-op game mode can be changed.
I think it is certainly possible to do have a methodical, stealthy approach commander with the current mechanics.
Imagine a commander that has the ability to lure enemies together. Something like a flare or psi emitter that can draw all the enemies in a huge area (think tychus nuke) to 1 spot. From there, you have disgusting amounts of splash damage or objective snipe potential (think zagara scourge snipes but the only thing defending is static defense).
My initial thought was a cmd that mainly use unit that calldown from merc compound with an investment mechanic but the downside is the more resources heavy they become after each investment.
Like War Pig for example, the more you pay for that specific unit type, the more powerful/plentiful (with stronger weapon and armor upgrade and new ability) they become but each contract will have increase cost from the initial 200 min for 4 Wp to max of 1000 for 4.
Each contract have a small cooldown and that cooldown would also increase in time the more upgrade that unit have.
Basically the more powerful and effective the unit is, the more expensive in cost and time for it.
I think we still haven’t got a cmd with this kind of mechanic in play.
Mechanic yes, systematically no. “Stealthy” commander will always work but not those who heavily depend/its own feature is set on kitting. Mutation-wise it should be useful on paper, but most of the time the other player will just laugh in its viable build- for example, laugh in Xel’naga, etc…
What I’m really trying to say is that the current Co-op only encourages players to get more kills and deal more damage than their allies. Unless it is veteran players (and even some of them won’t) otherwise no one will care about how your guardian sheet or any sorts of debuffs can help them.
Also, the Amon A.I. doesn’t encourage kitting, at all. You are fighting an army that basically only knows how to rapid-fire and a-move. What’s the point of spending time to kite them to the end, while most of the other commander’s armies can just wipe their face from out of this world?