Teaching Terrans About Asymmetrical Balance (Goal)

Seems like Terran players struggle very much with this simple concept.
Try explaining how asymmetrical balance works GO!

I’ll save good comments to repost in other Terran whine threads.

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The idea is that all three races have different strengths and weaknesses. But each race has various counters that can be employed against all the units and abilities. This might mean that certain strategies and army compositions may be more viable against one race than another regardless of your personal preferences.

The first two Warcraft RTS games experimented with having both races nearly identical but this meant that the few differences that did exist with spells and upgrades were even more pronounced, especially with there not really being viable counters to spells like Bloodlust or Invisibility. The original Starcraft changed that completely. Warcraft III wasn’t as big on counters but they still existed and Starcraft II leans very heavily on them.


i been wanting to do a run down on exactly what there unit blance system is

like the amount of value in any given unit for example the

Minerals +
gas +
supply +
unit build time

that supplements the total value of the unit .

but for all the units there are these such varriables
low med high
Minerals even
gas toss teran zerg
supply zerg terran toss
unit build time zerg terra toss

Hp zerg terran toss
amor zerg terran toss

attack dammage zerg terran toss
attack cool down 0-5 seconds toss terran zerg
range zerg terran toss

Speed toss terran zerg

cloakable toss teran zerg
flyable zerg teran toss
hovers zerg toss teran
spell caster ------
detector toss zerg terran
has two weapons toss and terran
suicidal units , zerg .

Unit bonues , like
harded sheild
concussion rounds
light medium or heavy Amor ect

then of course each race has there rules or is supposed to have there weekness and strengths

zerg , strengts , amid at being a macro fought race , as in can fight in waves of units and arnt microed much cause they die fast , we are supposed to have the most addaptiable , fastes flexable race there is .

we are weak on convential things such as , health amor dammage fancy equipment , on top of that our units bear a slight weekness debuff due to there short build time .

terran and toss are realy have the same buffs and nerfs , got it on the armor attack and fancy equipment , but not on the speed and adapatabitly . the differance is just between each unit . now i dont play T or P that much .

there also seems to be a 1 and 3 pattern with the units

for example

zergling , zelot , marine . 2 melee 1 ranged
flame bat , hydra , draggon , 2 ranged 1 melee

battle crusier , carrrier , brood lord 1 short range , 2 long
viking corsair coruptor , 2 heavy dammage 1 light dammage

there are more examples but i dont have the units memoreied by tier . but they have that go on , and i think that is cool .

any how , the only weakness terran has is the size of there base

toss cant heal exactly , there weak on cloak a little

There’s a difference between claiming the game is balanced while maintaining that each race requires the same level of skill to fully take advantage of which creates a disparity in how fun the game can be to play in this context.

Playing TvP is a nightmare for the T player.

Playing PvZ is a nightmare for the P player.

I don’t play Zerg so I’m not going to comment on that matchup directly, but I’ve heard many complaints from Zerg players as well.

Thus the problem with asymmetric game play the conversation should focus less on the balance of direct counters and more on the level of skill required to utilize those counters in context to the match up.

Some very basic things:

its ok that zerg can mass produce workers because they lose a worker every time they build something. also their units are generally more inefficient so they need a better eco. protoss can produce workers faster and terran has mules. Every race has different worker mechanics that are good in different scenarios.

Its ok that protoss has recall and basically a free out of jail card if you are out of position. zerg has creep for that (and maybe you can also count in the queen) and terran has a detection out of jail card and a i messed up macro out of jail card.

its ok that protoss has battery overcharge as a defensive mechanism because terran has good simcity and planetary with repair. and zerg has once again creep and queens.

it is ok that protoss has the invisible man because terran has the invisible mine :slight_smile:

zerg has no get outa jail free cards .

our dectecion was suveraly nerffed from sc1 , wheare as then ya just need an minearl only over loards , now you need an over seer and ton of creep spread .

i like our nerff , i think it addes to the depth of the game , but terran agen only needs a spell to deal with things and in this case always has , and for some reason , this has been ingored , even thouhg it flies right in the face of zerg innate , and expensive ability to burrow . ( as they still charge us for it )

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wrong. creep is free out of jail card.

vision and speed is insane.


think the term is just not chosen correctly. that’s why the misunderstandings.

out of position → click recall. like when you place a card.
creep is not, click and your opponent suddenly stands on creep. it is a constant/ preparation.

unfortunate term for advantage mechanics.

creep takes effort to build and you can take it way with little effort

vission is not insaine , and creep build is a skill , and zerg heavily heavily relies on vision cause with out it , the other two races could do any thing and smoke us , as it often has .

terran would have vision as a weekness , but they have it as an OP satellite spell .

oh dident bring a dectors , thats fine aslong as you got a satalite on speed dial .

i only make noise casue it litterly makes , Burrow , a would be get outa jail free card , useless - instantly i might add .

one might argue that it works with banes , but you have to know X army would go there , which is a lot of skill to set such trap .

it makes lurkers and roaches and infestors , and observers overly hard to use .

project 80

once race is not supposed to be easyier to play than the next , but one can not say that its not , as in that be impossible to have " perfectly balanced " my goal would be ; is it fun ?

im not upset that zerg might be the hardest of the races , but there should be expoliatablites available for those of said hardest race .

terran perfection would be closest defined at to an old diesel engin.

protoss to that of an electric motor

zerg to that of 16 horse drawn wagon .

but zerg HAS to be hard to play , the " most efficient " or most exploitable race , would have to be that way cause the zerg are the antagonist of the game .

terran are the protagonist , and toss have been at it for a long time be need terrans help .

with out a bad guy there is no reason to take arms , no reason to be heated . but who is gonna play the bad guy less the bad guy has the perks of being the bad guy ? its just be boring .

its ok for zerg to be hardest , but there are times when it seems zerg is like overly fine tooth combed apon .

it seems to come down too , ok , you can still do it , so its not hard quit crying .

infestor counters thor . ( as long as you have more infestors than they have units )

lurker counters bio ball ( as long as they forgot to build a satellite )

which btw , IF they ever took away satiates ability to see cloaked units , they could lower lurkers rang to 6 agen .

but ,- terrans special .

in handling everything BIG zerg could throw at them , they can counter seemingly easily , like , with easy to deploy spells , and for having better units - cheaper on gas , as an army .

all of terrans units work well for what they do .

some of zerg units have a hard time filling there use , there still use able , they still do what they do , but they don’t synergize with the prime zerg force , and right now that , is roach ravager .

hyda is a unit that they raved about being OP in the begging , which was not OP for its class a Tier 2 ! 2 supply unit marine , + vespine

marine , and hydra , are the same thing a light High DPS unit .

but hear , hydra compared to a unit of the exact same predatory pool is waste of space . 2 pop means the unit should twice the same " attribute points " as 1 marrine . + tier 2 Buff

it dosnet mean it can beat to marriens in a fight , but needs have the points there , + 50 vespine , which to me is worth 2-3x more than mineral . weather its in speed or unit abilities , i don’t see it .

they had to nerf it cause marine^2 was to dence population for a dps unit . but if you split hydra in half you have

Hydra at 1 supply
minerals 50
vespine 25

hp 40
dammage (12) so 6 at 0.59
range 5-6
speed 3.15 .

marrine at 1 supply
Hp 45
dammage 6 at 0.61
range 5 - 6
speed 3.15

the units have the same speed and range , almost the same dammage (off by just a 0.02 milaseconds) , but per population i pay infantly more on gas , and have a unit with less health and no blood lust .

the marrine is more zerglie like than the Zergs most iconic unit . that is no longer mass able , no longer inexpensive , and for costing more holds no advantage over a unit of its same " high-DPS " type . not to mention hydra is tier 2

the unit can heal and burrow on its own , but rarely is that a wining or frugal factor like for Roach , these abiltites with the way the game is presently are not worth 50 vespine

late game , marine become insane buff , while hydra dosent .

lurker is a T3 seige unit , not a bigger hydra .

Zerg is supposed to have the cheeper units , toe to toe , there not supposed to win . but there not supposed to die AND cost more .

rant over sry

Fine its a never get in jail mechanic.

The Vision is indeed insane. In lategame its legit maphack. In midgame it Starts to get to the Point where its really hard to surprise your Opponent with any Kind of Attack. Combined with overlords zerg has perfect Air and ground Vision and scouting. And its really Not hard to Do. Its Just a chore.

Pretty crazy and Long rant for the Race that is the strongest in sc1 and sc2 :stuck_out_tongue:


Better title: Barely sentient toss and zerg players try to justify why the reason blizzard made their races have every advantage is because blizzard did a 900 IQ play where they then made terran better in some way, so it’s not bad balance it’s just asymetrical!!! Too bad nobody can name this secret advantage terran has, and all we see is toss and zerg having better units and getting out of control if left alone for a minute while effortlessly defending everything terran throws at them with no counterplay :frowning:

I don’t think there’s anything to teach someone who thinks terran is remotely viable or even isn’t utterly losing in the loading screen to these 2 races. At that point you are a literal mindless drone.

Lurkers still counter Bio when Terran has detection, you just need enough Lurkers to compete with the army you are fighting; and if you reach a certain critical mass of Lurkers then Bio has almost no chance.

That is false. Lurkers were able to function as 6 range units in Brood War because unit ranges were generally lower, because burrowed Lurkers could directly stack to share the same range, and because the pathing made it difficult for other units to attack Lurkers without straying into range and getting hit.

Scanner Sweep exists in both games, and there is usually more energy for it in Brood War than StarCraft II since it doesn’t have to compete for energy with Mules. On top of that, Science Vessels are a better unit than the Raven with more health, so Brood War Terran is more likely to have permanent detectors with each army.

StarCraft II has a lot more 6 range units, and most units can stop and respond to new commands on a dime. This prevents 6-range Lurkers from working because the enemy can just step in for a volley and step back taking minimal damage on the trade. Marauders, Stalkers, and Hydralisks can all potentially do this, while Immortals, Tanks, Cyclones, and Thors would just destroy 6-range Lurkers with minimal effort.

That’s not quite right. Higher health units benefit from staying alive longer. The extra health usually allows them to dish out more attacks before going down. Because of this, an exact 2-supply analog to a 1-supply unit needs slightly less than 2x stats, as the damage and health will scale off each-other. The Hydralisk’s range advantage and production advantage are also factors to consider regarding its strength.

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There isn’t a single 900 IQ individual on the entire planet. There probably isn’t a single person with over 200 IQ in fact. IQ has a standard deviation of 15, meaning one in every 30,000 people reaches 160 IQ, and 1 in 3,000,000 reaches 175. 1 in 800,000,000 reaches 190. There are 10 people on planet Earth with 190 IQ. If mankind is extremely lucky, we might have 1 person on Earth with 200 IQ. But, 900? You could have a billion Earths filled with a trillion people each and you still wouldn’t get one guy with 900 IQ.

By the time you get up to 160, there are so few of these people that by definition we don’t have hardly any data on them, meaning there is no way to really assess intelligence in that region. In other words, there is no way you could discern between someone who is 160 IQ and 190 IQ. They’d be more or less the same.

Is it? I have an admittedly pretty small sample size, but when I made my push to 4500 with Protoss in 15 games, I really did wreck a good few Zergs. The only thing I found to be a “nightmare” was PVP. That match up sucks.

yes , it still possible to resist bio with lurker , but lurker is a superior unit to marine in a gun fight , lurker should be a hard counter too bio , you could bring a raven , i should have to kite down the raven ,

not be like ’ ok i guess i might loose this battle if he brings a few tanks . "

lurkers , are not fast units they dont run about .

satellite counters lurker . it counters all cloaked units hard . my argument is , WHY DOSE Terran need an anti cloak spell ?

my complaint is not just about lurkers ,
while there ranges of units have increased from one game to the next but all the units that rely on cloak as part of there unit design .

all three races have equle detection units .

they neffred zerg from 1 simple over lord to over seers and creep . i think it fits zerg better , i do .

but terran , dosent have to sacrfice any sweat to uncloak units . the spell is OP . its more OP than infested terran were , before they were replaced with micobial sheild . and infested terran is a spell all the way from warcraft 1 . the skeleton . satlite is Holy vison from the same game , but with the abitly to see cloaked units . but its OP .

im shur they have tride to compensate the other races , buy WHY dose terran need an anti cloak spell ?

thank you sentry .

vission of both terran and zerg is better than toss . the reason i say visison is not insane , is cause in sc1 , our vision was in saine 1 , 100 unit over lord , or was it 200 ?

any how , that was the glory day of vission for zerg .

this version , and as i said , i think the way they have it is more fitting .
even then yes our vission has the capasity to be the best vission , - in macro . IN MICRO , terran had had that Cup since day 1 .

secondly zerg heavily realies on that vision , if we have not see an strategy from yall , we litterly have to Waite with a partial army supply so when we see it we can fill in some gaps , but if we miss , we fold like a wet paper sack .

terran and toss , sorta need vission , but not like zerg dose . there units as long as they have them there can take that first hit and be fine .

zerg heavily relies on it explotablities , mass prodution , vission , speed .

but haveing to do that every time , can be realy , not fun .

zerg units have been expanding to larger units , at a point , this will break them .

any how im prerty shur terran is the strongest race , if you think its zerg i realy apprechiate . but terran is the stronger race .

im not upset if terran is the stronger race , i just want my issues addressed . , ya know , hypotecticly .

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Lurkers are a hard-counter to Bio. Bio can only compete with very small Lurker counts. Confronting larger groups of Lurkers generally involves keeping the Bio out of the Lurkers’ range while air units (Liberators, etc), Siege Tanks, or undetected Ghosts pick them off.

Technically, Lurkers are one of the fastest Zerg units. On creep they can nearly match the speed of Hellions, and un-upgraded Lurkers still move as fast as Stalkers off-creep.

The only factor that makes Lurkers “slow” is their burrow time. They need at least a second to burrow, which gives the enemy time to reposition if you are burrowing
in combat."

Terran needs scan because the Terran detector is an expensive caster at the far end of the tech-tree, requiring a tech lab that Terran would usually rather not have on their Starport.

Ravens are generally the worst detector. Most other detectors are cheaper and/or more readily available.

  • Zerg can just morph any of their supply units into an Overseer after Lair. They can morph as many detectors as they want without worrying about supply, and they should always have Overlords readily available.
  • The Observer benefits from being both cheap and invisible, and they aren’t the only Protoss option for detection either. Stargate builds can use Oracles with Revelation, which is not too dissimilar from using Scan apart from the range.

Terran has to choose between using energy on their macro mechanics or using scan. That is an opportunity cost.

There’s a lot of easy Zerg cheese that makes playing Protoss in the match up not fun.

I find it funny that most Protoss hate the most balanced matchup for them. Makes you wonder, if even Protoss hate playing Protoss, imagine what it’s like for Terran.


lurkers themselves are not a hard counter to bio.
It is rather the thing more range and aoe damage that makes them strong against bio.
like tank, above a certain amount, armies of many units with small hp have a problem.

do not even necessarily have to be undetected.
snip has the same range. due to their size, lurkers can protect each other difficult vs ghost.
In the end you have a border battle.