Is there any way that you can put an upgrade on the tanks where there early pushes like an upgrade where they don’t shoot too far. Their splash damage is way too strong . You buffed the stim pack where marines get stim earlier fine . But when tanks push out with a pack a marines with stim . It’s like zerg has almost no counter . You push in with queens and banes terrans guns down queens then you try to connect with banes they run into their seige line. terran shoots down with tanks . Then they take a group of marines loaded in a medivac into your main …no defense there and it’s pretty much a wrap . Terran is too strong early game now. Too many options. And what does zerg have ? Roaches and queens and banes ? All those get easily attacked down by tanks and rines . And i do get lair relatively fast. But by that time the terran push parade is already in full force .
hit from both sides (flank)
Watch Scarlett vs Innovation at GSL. It isn’t a flank problem, it’s a power problem: too much power before Zerg can deal with it, and if Z does, by building an army earlier, unlike T Zerg doesn’t have mules and will then fall behind.
im assuming your new, its important not to push into siege tanks unless you absolutely have to(or unless you have the proper tools) and take advantage of the fact that tanks take a while to seige up, so dont let them walk directly to your base, try to force siege ups on the way and back off.
all three of those units are really bad vs tanks except maybe queens, ravengers good vs tanks and zerglings are decent, i would suggestion going zergling.
as a terran i dont really like going tank vs zerglings and usually only build a few(so that i can research drilling claws on the tech lab.) en then i go into widow mines because tanks take far to long to siege up. im sure they are good though in the right hands.
if you are dealing with a turtle terran or someone with allot of tanks, make sure to take advantage of things like vipers and especially brood lords. Brood lords are very easy to control(just A-move) and hard counter seige tanks, and the tanks will do friendly fire from the brood lings, so most terrans will siege.
Tanks are fine.
20 chars
that’s what most terra say to zerg. I’m deliberately taking your sentence out of the context of turtle.
I think those are arguments that zerg players don’t like.
Because from zerg point of view Terran can build the first tank ~ 3-4 minutes. He can do it, in most cases the tank is built later.
And you as a zerg should go hive now. ~9min (BL/Viper).
in general tvz i would say tank are never bad. and i understand the frustration when 6 tanks are set up and you want/need to break it. or when PF /tank /towers and you want to harass.
but if you catch a terra amree in motion before they change the mode. best moment.
If terran sieges in his base, you take the map and flood him with units so hard he never turtles again.
If you headbutt into his sieged position on 3 base, ofc you lose. T losses if he attacks into creep as well. Its just how game is.
Also, as Zerg, you have lings, SH, Ravagers, Broods and Vipers all of which either are good against or absolutely trash tanks.
As Protoss, you have only Zealots or blink stalker/imortal in small numbers to do counter it. If anyone should have problem, its P not Z. And they dont have it because Zealots are rather amazing at dealing with Tanks.
Tanks are absurdly broken vs Zerg (not to mention the fact that they are good in TvP and centralizing in TvT).
Tanks delete supply before a Zerg player can even blink. It neuters early game Zerg aggression vs Terran. It allows for the absurd turtle terran TvZs you see at the pro level, where a pro zerg can own 60%+ of the map, outplaying the Terran the whole way, and still lose.
Tanks are a significant reason there is zero margin for error in ZvT, and insane margin for error for the Terran player in TvZ.
And then you realize MMM has superior mobility and efficiency
No it’s not.
Tanks to not exist in a vacuum. SH are trash vs terran. Ravagers may or may not bile down all tanks and by that time the zerg army will be deleted by Bio or something. Broods are trash nowadays - imagine giving Terran players an excuse to mass thors. Ghosts exists meaning all the Zerg high tech units are as good as dead.
The bottom line is that Terran comps >>> all zerg comps assuming equal unit control and whatnot.
What are you smoking here. There is no matchup that can handle tanks as well as PvT, not even TvT, where tanks are overcentralizing. And even with immortals and chargelots tanks are still very good.
agree with you. but find air stuff T or P countert early aggression from Z better and allow ovi attack or harass.
but on the topic of tanks. Tank alone does not win the game in a regular game. The comp with other units / advantages (wall, tower, PF) makes them strong.
I dont think anyone with half braincell took you seriously after you said this as a Zerg.
Are you seriously suggesting:
A) ling bane has greater efficiency than MMM
B) ground units have greater mobility than a top 5 air unit in terms of speed (fastest with boost) that can also hot pickup?
You really trying to make that much of a fool of yourself?
Most efficient unit from last tournament we have such data from: SH
By far. Incidentaly, its great vs turtle terran.
Im suggesting your lings are fastest ground unit in the game. Mutas are faster than any terran air unit. Before you pull up BC, you have Nydus.
No, not even of you as you do so well enough yourself.
Nice try but we were discussing ling bane vs MMM
I havent seen this “data” but even if it were true it is due to zvp, not zvt
I never said lings arent the fastest ground unit in the game. speed =/= mobility.
MMM is more mobile than ling bane. by far.
You are utterly clueless about the game. You claim that all a zerg has to do to beat a turtle terran is take over the map and control it with ling bane.
Guess what the best Zerg player on the planet tried to do against a turtling Maru on the golden wall game in ST? he had 5-6 bases vs maru’s 3, and tried ling bane (into ling bane ultra to maintain mobility and try to control the map). Maru pulled him apart with the inherently superior MMM.
also lol @ trying to paint me as a biased zerg player
first of all, I play Terran on the ladder
second of all, even if i mained zerg, i wouldnt use my experience as evidence for anything. My ladder experience is completely irrelevant to balance. the game is not balanced for sub GM
Ling bane? Quote me where I said anything about ling bane >.> Why are you so fixated on it.
As for drop play? Nice trying to NOT talk about mutas which usually absolutely shut it down completely and are the MOST mobile thing in the game.
How do you “take the map and flood him with units so hard” without ling bane? Please dont say roach ravager.
Mutas do not shut down drop play at all. Mutas are more mobile than MMM but they are dwarfed in terms of efficiency. Mutas are barely more mobile than MMM and are far worse in terms of fighting ability than MMM…gee i wonder which is overall better.
flying over areas is what zerg hits the hardest in the early game. because you always have to be in the right position. in maps where the first three bases are in triangle formations. between third and main base only area heights difference is particularly noticeable.
If you have whole map and he is turtling on 3 base, you can swarm him with Ultras for all I care. Its about having MUCH more income than him. Thats why you take bases, not to make ling bane while hes stacking tanks.
Last time I checked medivacs cant shoot at all. They are also much slower unless boosting. And cant spit out army like 2019 Nydus. You also see half the map using creep + ovis at corners.
If you catch medivac on the way to harras you, its however many mutas you have vs one marine at a time. If he can drop them at all.
ling-banes hard counter tanks-marine-medivac.
Tanks are acceptable vs ling-bane only in blink-and-you-miss-it timing window when speed for banes is not ready yet and Terran have 2-3 tanks at this moment and is pushing zerg 4-th during that timing window… which is not even possible on some maps because of how wide open 4-th base is.
Splash of tanks is laughably bad against ling-bane. Terran player need WM to deal with flood. Tanks are added later on if hydras are spotted.
Tanks do well actually. But you cant move out. Once you are on the map, Tanks are terrible vs ling bane because its harder to not flank slowest moving army in the game.