SO objective, in fact, that you’ve excluded 100% of facts that don’t conform to your narrative. You’re so, So, SO objective, that you decided that somehow, some way, you getting 1500 less MMR with Terran in a month, really means something, while me getting 100 MMR more in a few days, means nothing!
You’re so objective that ladder stats mean nothing.
You’re so objective that win rates mean nothing.
You’re so objective that winning 60% of the Premiers this year means nothing.
Blah, blah, blah. “Mr barcode said something that is a fact, with no evidence to it, and then he put words in my mouth and said x was untrue and invalidated god knows what.” No one cares. Shut up.
I literally just started playing Terran in SC 2. I don’t watch anything. It’s not like I started out 5k MMR with Toss. I didn’t play LotV the first year it was out. It’s not like I just played 50 games and was GM, despite having previously been top 16. If one can deduce anything, it’s that playing Terran probably isn’t impossible and far less hard than what you guys spout 24/7.
You’re the king of making up numbers, I’ll give you that. In your world being within a billion of the actual number is accuracy.
You guys want to have it both ways. So, let me have it both ways. You guys want to pretend that SC 2 Terran is the hardest thing of all time and that I’d be in Bronze league if I tried to play as Terran. So, apparently I’ve never played as Terran before and I’ve never encountered what is truly hard before.
So, either what I’ve said all this time is true (if you’ve played Terran in BW you can play it in SC 2)… or I’m just a natural SC 2 Terran prodigy. There’s zero carry over. I’m seeing tanks and marines for the first time in my life, and somehow it’s not too daunting for me.
I’m just trying to wrap my mind around the kinda intelligence that sees unlimited unit selections, CALL DOWN OF SUPPLIES and PLANETARY FORRESSES, and thinks “hey guys… you know what… I think Terran is the hardest to play that it’s ever been.”
That’s a kind of arrogance that is truly impressive. That level of arrogance/weirdness can’t be topped. I’m playing Terran to try to understand what it is you guys keep blabbering about. So far, I haven’t found it/don’t get it.
Maybe Terran takes more APM. Okay… big deal. Jesus christ. It’s not like I’m a high APM player. It’s not like I watch any SC 2 events. It’s not like I’m out here getting coaching from innovation. Just use some common sense, jesus. It can help you win games with any race.
Just a reminder for the Terrans who have only played SC 2. In BW, you couldn’t hotkey multiple builds to one key. So, when you were microing… you had to cycle through every single factory or you had to quickly go to your base and manually make a unit from every factory (click on every single one, one by one).
So, if you were playing a T vs Z, you’d have to use an F key on your barracks, and then you’d have to quickly make “10 marines” from 10 different raxes, while you were fighting on multiple fronts. 12 unit max in a hotkey and you needed an individual hotkey for medics.
Come on. Come the f on. What are on earth are you guys talking about? Nonsense.
I played SC1 in 1998… I played it in 2011 out of some weird ‘let’s LAN play with some dudes for fun’ and I found the mechanics to be quite primitive having played wc3 and sc2 for so many years after SC1. I never asked and used F2 key, dont even use camera keys, but SC1 was just lacking controls.
Used to play on LAN with dudes too. 8 player BGH. Absolute legendary. The camera keys really come from having to look at your army 12 units at a time in SC1.
You would just keep moving camera. Select 12 units.
As Terran, especially, you had to use them for your bases because a reaver could kill your entire worker line if you didn’t move your scvs away as quickly as possible (storm drop too).
What I remember, and part of why training in Korea helped players a lot, is Nony said that the coaches forced him to use F keys. The few players who joined pro teams in Korea were literally forced to play the game fundamentally correct or they had to leave…
I knew Toss didn’t require many of the fundamentals that the other races took for granted/required, but I was still surprised to hear he didn’t use them until then. A lot of Toss players in SC 2, that played BW, still haven’t even learned to look at their minimap. No one gets caught off guard by baneling run bys like Toss pros.
Was watching Nony about a month back. Saw him lose in a real close PvP. Was telling him how good the shield battery overcharge is. He was reading the comment like the overcharge is good and continued on, well I did see a guy use it the other day.
I bet he uses batteries now.
If you say so. But there has to be other things that Toss needed to do in BW. Again, they were the weakest race in SC1 too. Going by all the BW esports history I was forcefed when Flash and Donger came to SC2.
From what I learned, those two won all the major titles.
It’s sad. But it’s also sad how Toss is the easiest race to abuse in SC2. For both T and Z. Hence no GSL CODE S Titles. Ergo, my name.
If we’re talking a non Korean level, simply having any fundamentals that the other races instilled in you would already make you better at Toss than actual Toss players. If you’re strategical in nature, there’s nothing hard about playing as Toss in BW. It’s really relaxing, easy, and forgiving. Relatively peaceful time.
I think Toss is starting to do a lot better at the pro scene. I feel that as fewer and fewer players put in the time required to play the harder races at their max level, Toss will dominate more and more.
Terran is incredibly hard to play at its potential. Impossible if you’re not flash. As those players who somehow came close to this level start to retire or play less… Toss could become unbeatable; you can be rather casual and play Toss near perfection. The race isn’t so UP that you can play far away from perfection and expect to win games.
For example, to me… the hardest matchup I’ve played in all of Starcraft is… T vs P in BW. Technically, P vs Z macro in HotS was less winnable, even if you played perfectly, but… being good at T vs P is like the pinnacle of being good at RTS… You can’t luck into that.
Nony is weird. I don’t say that to hate on him/disparage, as I’m weird too, right… He simply is very weird; he always acts like it’s his first time experiencing things or hearing about “insert any player.” I’ve genuinely wondered if he has dementia or something. Either way, he’s the only other Toss player that I’d say I’ve ever seen “do his own thing.” Thus, he’s truly the only other Toss player even capable of creating something original. You kinda need his personality for it to even be possible.
Get used to that feeling. That’s part of the appeal/luster of watching him. Like a year ago or so, a viewer asked about a player, such as Maru or a Terran on that level, if not him, and Nony, unsarcastically, said he had never heard of him. Every stream it seems he says something in that light where you’re just in sheer disbelief. I don’t know how to explain it.
For instance, last time I played Nony, I believe he called my build odd and I tried to tell him that Maxpax does it, too (obvious reasons why). He told me he had never heard of Maxpax. Nony has played this game for how long now? He actively tries to download pro replays and what not, yet… you still hear things like this on the reg. That wouldn’t even make the top 5 of surprising things I’ve heard him say.
Yeah. He seems to be the only guy that’s apart of the “old guard” that has been abandoned in regards to promotion and what not. Kinda left him out to dry. I’ve wondered why. He seems like a better guy than the rest, after all.
To be fair, Vibe has a bronze to GM series with Terran and gets really salty when you call him a 4300 Terran, which he is. He’s really up his own a$s.
If you open reaper FE it’s fine to make a bunker, but if you’re losing to reapers when you opened with a 2 gas build you should just get better micro. Also a tip for reaper hellion micro, if the hellion isn’t hitting two targets at a time, which it shouldn’t be, the reaper actually has the higher DPS, so that’s what you should be focus firing.
25 minerals isn’t a big deal, but 100 is. Getting a bunker delays your CC, barracks, gas, etc. from going up on time.
Not in TvT. Marine tank air pushes are much stronger if you’re planning to go into bio because you don’t have an issue with continuous marine production whereas a mech player wants to cut marines. Sure, as mech you can just make the marines but then you have to commit to the push whereas bio can just back off.
I mean, isn’t that an argument for why BW would be easier than SC2? Camera hotkeys are commonplace AFAIK. I’m quite confident Toss players are less likely than other races to use them, but I started using camera hotkeys in diamond league.
He’s kind of a d-bag (remove the kind of). The most common personality for streamers in SC 2. You have to be pretty narcissistic to have the bare minimum MMR for your mechanics and games played, yet want to coach Terran players. Like imagine what his MMR would be if he had the mechanics of his students. At some point, you have to realize you have no idea.
He called me brain dead, and lobbied every insult in the book at me for the P vs P build I use. I was like hey man… it’s a pretty solid build, I think it’s even meta worthy (It is the meta now btw). To make things even more out of this world ironical/humorous, the same day… I tuned into his stream and he was praising himself for doing what he considered to be so genius and meta breaking: disruptor, void ray vs Zerg.
I thought he was being condescending or something, given how he was just hating on me for my P vs P build and now he was glorifying himself for a build I had used against him for at least 3 years in a row? He’s actually that out of touch/narcissistic. It’s pretty wild.
I talked to him about this. I’m like just look at any rep of any game you’ve played vs me and tell me what the difference is… So, now… he refuses to use that style, despite it being his favorite style/build, and ofc… he refuses to acknowledge any of this or give me any credit.
The craziest thing is… Vibe is actually a better human than the other streamers. The other streamers? They 100% ignore reality and go around telling people they created this and that… That’s how low the bar is for character/ethics among SC 2 streamers. They’re all messed up in the head and people praising them only rewards them for being scum bags/makes it worse.
I wish I were lying. It’s crazy to think I’m actually understating/underselling how demented things are.
I’m not a micro player. Micro really doesn’t interest me at all, either. So, I have no shame in making a bunker. Better looking like a noob and winning than looking like a noob and losing. My new motto… I’ve also noticed how bad hellions seem to be. I’ve always thought they were Terran’s worst unit, but man… I have zero desire to make them, and I was really blown away by just how bad hellions seem vs reapers, too.
Okay, I actually do make hellions later on, for meat shield purposes. Worst meat shield ever, though… That said, I prob do need to get blue flame when they go bio… Thanks for the tip.
It doesn’t matter, though, if you’re able to make your cc at your natural and they’re not. It’s still a net gain for you.
Nony played as Toss; Yes, Toss was far easier to play in BW than in SC 2, part of why it’s doubly crazy to me to talk about how hard Terran is and how b s Toss is. Terran was harder in BW than it is now… and Toss in BW is the easiest race to play in Starcraft history, by far.
Believe it or not, but Toss existed in BW, too, and T vs P was far harder than anything about T vs P today in SC 2. At least I have no idea what comes close to then… Yet to be seen for sure.
Btw, if one is following/keeping track at home, a lot of things I do are deemed genius/awesome – as long as my name isn’t attached to it. The ultimate double standard/discrimination. The Blizzard way.