swann is nearly useless offensivly until he gets thor and and mengsk is also nearly useless offensivly until he gets blackhammer. the problem is however the same with raynor but, he have hyperion, which he can use to attack on early levels. instead of locking the units to levels, they should instead lock their special abilities to levels.
Forum Moderator Note: As the thread spun into mostly trolling and nontopic posts, it will now be closed.
This alone shows you need to work on improving your gameplay as Swann. And not the commander design that’s the problem here.
Sounds like you’re just into Thors in general, that’s a problem if you’re going for nothing but that. Quite literally, at minute 0, Mengsk has troopers that you convert.
You really need to improve on these commanders. Going off of your example, if you’re not fully saturated by 5min (earliest Hyperion) then no wonder you got nothing to work with.
no, i am not a thor player in general. thors however is the only unit swann have that does not drop like flies. mengsk have the same issue, because most of his units is weak(troopers) or bad at attacking(siege tanks). only blackhammer and pride of augustgrad is not as vulnerable. if i for example use cyclones or golaits as swann, they get one hit killed by the stronger enemies, like reavers. mengsk`s units is very vulnerable, because he can not upgrade the defense of his royal guard units. that makes them particulary vulnerable until they gain enough experience. they could add 2 new upgrades called royal guard weapons and royal guard armor. swann have a levelup ability that improves his units but, he gains it too late. here is a suggestion: make thors available on level 1 and drakken laser drill available later.
These two are among the worst units in their respective commander’s kits lol try some herc/tank openings and you’ll see what’s up
siege tanks is useless when attacking. they are good when defending only.
This is just completely untrue, you clearly don’t know how to play Swann properly. I don’t mean that as an offense at all - you should definitely look into herc tank builds, which have absurd pushing capabilities and some of the highest burst damage in the game
None of what you are proposing here solves your problem. An upgrade or even 3 upgrades in armor won’t prevent Siege Tank shots or Reaver shots from K.O.'ing units with less bulk.
You seem to miss the point where “improving yourself” seems like the solution. The point here is to not run your units into 6-10 siege line and get pummeled. Use Defensive Matrix to add bulk, Lock-on down Tanks and Reavers, or simply target them down.
You’re using endgame content as a benchmark for early game. There’s so much that doesn’t make sense to even have much of a discussion. Anyway, take it how you will but one thing for sure. This idea won’t ever happen, I guarantee it.
reavers have too long range so, by the time i see them, my units is already dead. reavers always wins against goliats, because they one hit kill them at longer range. skyfuries struggle against zerglings because zerglings is faster and skyfuries have too little armor.
You know what has longer range than reavers AND hitscan? Tanks. You can shoot and pick them up before the scarab ever touches you
I’m super confused - out of every Mengsk unit, why would you ever think sky furies are the answer to zerglings?
how do you manage to pick the worst units for both commander as your go-to better units?
seriously, look up some information and videos.
Herc Tank is one of, if not the most powerful anti-ground in the game, and it is super mobile.
For early-game:
Swann: Eco is your first priority, if you didn’t spent mastery points into gas drones, don’t bother with them until you’re producting goliaths or siege tanks, never delay scv production. Attack waves use static defense, and siege tanks are good units, use Herc to do drop shenanigans.
Spending 400, 800 minerals on drones early-on does get in the way of getting units.
Mengsk: Do the witness rush build order, Aegis guards are descent units vs armored units, to prevent losing a bunch of troopers, get around 6 of them with flame weapon, they still are going to die, but flame weapon prevents quite a lot. Blackhammers are mostly a vs mass air units, you don’t want them vs armored armies, those you do siege tank or Aegis guards, only do 1-2 blackhammers for the sake of armor aura they provide.
Well this is clearly not actually a serious thread (not saying the word, but I’m thinking it loudly.) but I’m gonna say the following for anyone less knowledgeable of the mode:
Mass Thors are bad, worse than mass Goliath, mass Blackhammer is worse than both. Mass Skyfury versus ground is meme level bad.
Mass Goliath are a better answer to Reavers than mass Thor (Herc-Tank is the better answer than both): Thors are slow, lower ranged than Reavers, and body block each other. Goliath will take less shots from the Reavers before clearing them out, and will lose less resources per fight due to this.
Side note: Thor sooner, Drakken when Thors unlock is a nerf. Drakken is of far too much use unless you don’t use it.
i did not start this topic to get trolled but, to try to improve some of the weaker commanders(on early levels). the hercules is unarmed and can therefore not attack. mass goliaths die to a single reaver, because of its high damage and area of effect.
yea you are trolling at this point
nobody is trolling you; you’re making suggestions based on incomplete understanding of individual commanders.
If anything, you’re trolling the posters that’s trying to get you to play better by posting serious answers.
Sigh, you’re trolling right? They transport siege tanks even while they’re siege mode, so you can slow push with them and deals great dmg vs hybrids.
Mass goliaths does lose units vs Reavers, but with this you use science vessels with shield ability and there’s also Laser Drill calldowns to help, because by the time you are facing them, you should have at least 1 upgrade on the drill.
He’s not wrong that Hercules cannot attack.
Guess I should stop building Observers or Void Arrays too; if it can’t attack it sucks.
Isn’t this the same guy that made this thread?
Same name, and burner account with zero games played. Checks out.
edit: excuse me whole fifteen freakin games I retract my statement.
Sure, i’ll give you benefit of the doubt.
Answer remains the same: check out Mengsk and Swann game plays from better players. CTG is a pretty reasonable person since I don’t think he does super crazy speed runs, and then see where that goes.
https:/ /starcraft2coop.com/
also provides a lot of information.