For those who know me, I main Protoss and love the race, and I would be the first to call for subtle buffs on a couple of things, mainly to help lower leagues but which might find some utility in the highest echelons.
That aside, I would like to talk about the Void Ray when properly used as is advertised - Surgical Strike Craft. In ZvP, dealing with Void Rays is rather difficult because of their ability to abuse dead space and take down Overlords and structures at speed. The early counter, the Queen, can be partially nullified with Phoenixes, while Hydralisks only appear later and have to catch them on creep with both of their upgrades researched, but even then the Void Rays can fly into a corner and be recalled home if they become trapped. However, once they have Flux Vanes, they become a significant force to be reckoned with and seriously frustrating to deal with (i’ve personally done tricks like distract the main Zerg army with a Zealot run-by, while my Void Rays fly in from another angle and snipe the Hive). Nothing that Zerg has in the air can really go toe-to-toe with them.
Saying that, I don’t want to remove Flux Vanes because it makes for interesting positional gameplay, but I would like to see its cost and research time increased so it takes a bit more investment:
Increase cost of Flux Vanes to 150m 150g
Increase research time to ~78 seconds (110 units)
Especially with the increased research time, it is more likely to get Chrono Boosted, which is a significant tell.
To note, even though Prismatic Alignment slows the unit right down, this is generally only used to quickly kill a key structure or to fight Corruptors, and the ability can be deactivated at will if the Void Rays need to retreat.
P.S. Their tactical sniping ability is also why I don’t support giving Void Rays +1 base armour.
TL:DR; Increase Flux Vanes cost to 150m 150g and research time to ~78 seconds (110 units).
Just because someone opened a forum thread, it does not mean anything. Developing team does not care what you support, what I support or anybody else, they flip a coin, say f* it and submit a change.
Even as being the only guy who massed void rays before flux vanes was even a thing… I don’t even research flux vanes unless the other guy opens mass corruptors. It costs 300/200 just to make a fleet beacon. If you’re getting flux vanes early, you may as well have just went with a better all-in… a cannon rush.
I truly don’t see how this could be viable at a high level, at all. It’s better to just harass with “slow rays” and maybe get it in the late game to help with splitting void rays from a group faster and to help cover more ground.
It’s really an optional upgrade. I’m still not even sure if I prefer to have it. It’s really good to have your army moving together in P vs Z, most of the times. It’s just clearly always good to have vs Terran, but the void ray is always bad vs Terran…
Protoss armies are deathball armies (at least in mid-late game). Having Voids sprint forward with zealots when they should protect Carriers is not such a good idea after all.
Void is a armor-counter not a Speedy-Gonzales, you want to give speed to units where speed is a critical attribute like…Phoenixes.
It was just a random change for the sake of change just to give the appearence that MoronTeam cares for Protoss.
Yeah. That’s definitely why more times than not, you’d rather just have reg speed rays. That said, there are pros and cons.
But, it actually is a needed upgrade, at least for how I play. Because they buffed the speed of corruptors to insane levels, for ZERO REASON, a very little known fact is… corruptors actually hard counter reg speed void ray builds, if they micro their corruptors properly.
I can open the game with 3 stargates and non stop chrono boost void rays, but, If a guy goes 3 hatch into mass corruptors… I will lose every time without speed upgrade or archons. It’s pretty stupid.
Fair enough - I guess you guys have spoken. Just to prove I’m not secretly a Protoss hater in disguise, I have suggested buffs before, albeit more subtle (although I’m happy to drop the Robotics Facility requirement on it):
Really, letting your Void Rays charge forward as part of a deathball is the sign of poor control, but I can see the drawback to Flux Vanes in that case. It’s more the issue that it makes a fleet of Void Rays lethal with tech-sniping. Compare 6 Void Rays to 12 Mutalisks (same supply cost, although much more expensive on minerals and gas)… they’re not as good at killing workers, but they can make mincemeat out of static defence and kill key structures incredibly quickly if you’re caught out of position, and then make a hasty retreat.
I suppose I also look at the other Fleet Beacon upgrade, Anion Pulse-Crystals… which is 150m 150g for a +2 attack range buff, which is primarily to help deal with Mutalisks in PvZ and might have a niche use in PvP when the opponent also has Phoenixes… i.e. it’s not as notable.
Originally, Flux Vanes was removed when Void Rays still had to charge up their attack in Wings of Liberty, because I believe it made them too strong in PvT (they wrecked Vikings and Medivacs).
Useless. Nobody warps in a sentry thinking hey, I need a guardian shield, only reason to warp sentries in battle (otherwise the upgrade is useless) is when you desperaly need FF. +25 energy will make no difference worth investing 150 gas in this and +50 energy will make terans go on riot.
lol? what is a tempest? The most useless unit which nobody makes?
It’s not nice, it’s mandatory in phoenix war. It’s not “notable”, it s a HUGE difference. With range you will bully enemy phoenix all day and with enough micro and at least +1 (or better +2) you can even start picking off corruptors if you are brave enough
Not at all. While moving the normal VR (together with the deathball) you have some time left to do macro or other tasks in the game, with FV you have to constantly babysitt the VR in order not to suicide them into the opponent.
The extra-speed in the case of VR is more of a curse than a blessing.
VR is a rather pathetic unit and does not warrant attention and APM that deserves a Disruptor/WP.
Only situation when FV is beneficial is when you manage exclusively VR. But those are only Bronze-Level games when you go mass VR…
Personally i can’t care less if they removed that useless upgrade. What VR requires is cost 200/100 (still overpriced at 200/100 at what it does), and Supply 3.
A +1 range would be OK.
Speed would be nice for fast units like Phoenixes. OP hardly plays beyond Bronze/Silver where massing VR with FV is a thing.
You can understand the level of a poster from his posts and concerns.
They don’t need any buff, they need to be redesigned. Remove Prismatic Alignment and increase damage vs armored (and reduce normal damage) by default, reduce cost and supply so they can actually fight… something along this lines like the cyclone received back in the day because 98% a voidray can do, stalkers, archons or phoenix can do better and/or cheaper
Flux vanes is fine and overrated. Half the time when I’m doing full carrier void ray skytoss I don’t even get it because I don’t want my voids flying off alone.
I have never won a game because of it and it’s not even used at all in high level play really.
