If your ally insta leaves how do people play it? Do you focus on your commander or try to build evenly from both.
Do you still take 4 bases?
I typically have a hard time with further multi tasking, and I typically use my ally’s commander just for extra macro and possibly support units / structure for my commander .
With Raynor I’ll make some medics, with Swann I’ll make science vessels / defense. I typically don’t fully expand to every base. If I’m going to build any combat unit, I typically just mass one unit that fits the mission and enemy composition.
Makes sense to get gas with Nova / Vorazun .
Any thoughts on best way to play losing your ally? Any tie bits on not solo playing but playing with 2 commanders.
I generally prioritise my own macro at the start and then add on more workers/structures for my ally as I start banking resources. If my ally has a hero commander and I don’t then that usually works out great, but generally my focus is on my own commander.
If the ally commander has strong defensive capabilities then I definitely use those to reinforce bases/objective points etc.
I like protoss allies best because I can chrono my upgrades and I usually build like 10 warpgates because then I have a panic button to deal with an attack wave or objective point or something.
As for diamond player, economical management and multitasking for me is on reasonably high level. I have no problem developing 2 players at the same time, including expansions, upgrades and unit production till supply limit.
However, different race and unique mechanics makes things way more complicated in terms of control groups, but possible to overcome. I usually setup standard economy and focus mainly on army/upgrades development for myself, while slowly adjusting my ally (making upgrades, setting up production and technology).
So first I get Deathball for myself to push objectives (low level Karax P2 straight into Carrier deathball is beautiful), and then I use my ally’s smaller army to defend our bases. However, I do not own any non-free commander, so playing more difficult ones is usually very tricky to me. Simple compositions like Abathur mass Roach or Dehaka Zergling + Hydralisk work good enough.
But when my ally is Raynor P1… well… I don’t even build my own army. I just push with immortal marines
But sometimes, both me and my ally are just too weak (for example low level Vorazun or something similar with Mengks), and insta leave is the only option.
Can’t say there’s a best way but certainly some more optimal choices that people should adhere to. (Assuming you’re going to stay cuz otherwise, this discussion is moot.)
The given here is they insta-leaves, keep that in mind.
Build auto-gas when it is appropriate. Even though there’s that influx of additional resource, don’t just dive right on gas. Using these should be obvious in that you save supply, resource for supply, and resource/time spent on economy via workers.
3 base tops (even though 2 is plenty). Most maps, your now-3rd base will either have to be pushed or taken down. 2-base economy is not superb for 2-CO gameplay but is in fact plenty for early-game. So I wouldn’t recommend diving onto your expansion (rock or not) during early game. And you never need more than 3, but feel free if it tickles.
Utility chrono boost at a minimum. At least 1/3 of these situations will be beneficial by chrono, whether it is you casting on an ally-yours structure or vice versa.
Get key units at a minimum, when the above 3 can be followed without overwhelming yourself. You don’t need 400/400 to run the map, as much as I’m sure that seems. Each commander has some wickedly powerful units, if only people actually coop’d more… Now is your chance. Get that Energizer, use that Havoc, shield up on the Conservator, throw in a Viper or two, etc.
Multi-front assault. With quicker econ, more top bar (even though not full top bar), and essentially more options at your finger tips, you can push far quicker than usual. This is your micro test at its finest. At a minimum, you can always F2 them all and tab through them quickly to benefit (for example, D-wave, Snipe, Griffin Strike, attack, repeat, etc.) Pushing two-fronts is far faster and beneficial time wise.
These sound (and should sound) pretty straight forward. Balancing them macro and micro, knowing tech-tree and timing with respect to map wave/objective timings will be far harder to master than I am listing them. After all, most are having trouble doing this with just 1 commander
Oh lastly, I forgot to mention. This is your rare opportunity to do a “true-solo” game. That means you pull off your ally’s workers, waste any income that came from your ally’s portion (so depending how fast you are, 50-100 mineral or so). And you expand only to your normal expansion (as if 2 players present). So the above rules don’t apply at all. Though me thinks that’s an entirely discussion worthy of its own thread.
If my ally instantly quits, it’s a best Christmas gift to me. I always ask for solo mode, but never granted. I can play with any comp and strategy I want, no one will harass me because some non-meta stuff is stupid.
These days I just leave because I like to show off and if my ally leaves I can’t do that XD
but when coop was newer, I loved playing with 2 commanders because it felt novel. TYPICALLY I use my ally to infuse BOTH expos, sometimes even my main, to preserve supply for MY commander’s army. I’ll macro units out of their army that mesh well with mine. (For example, earlier today a mengak left halfway through while I was playing nova, I said screw it and continued. I was playing a tank/goliath build so I added mengsk tanks to my army.)
For most people, if your APM is not more than 200 (just being slightly conservative), I wouldn’t recommend building evenly for both. You are better off leveraging your ally’s base as an expo (which it already is functioning as such) and then use the resources to bolster your army / tech.
Unless you would like to take advantage of specific tech trees, there isn’t really a need to focus on your ally’s base. The only other advantage of a 2nd commander is that you can bring your army supply past 200 (since 2 pax = 400). You can’t even use their abilities (unless they are hero-based).
I’m not sure about the math, but if memory serves, auto harvest’s only benefit is that you don’t need to spend 150 minerals and training time for workers. However, the downside is that they don’t harvest gas as quickly as 3 workers. I do believe people have researched into this, but I can’t recall what the results are.
Usually, I’d just leave and re-queue because it’s too much work compared to the time taken. Unless it is already somewhat mid-game and I don’t want to waste the XP, then I will finish it up.
Perhaps it is just because I farm for XP only, and Co-op has become overly repetitive for me.
When ally leaves, I usually do as well, sometimes to do some solo Brutal out of that but when ally actually leaves after like, 10+ minutes into the game:
I usually try to work with A-move welcome armies , so I can have my commander’s army and ally’s commander in each hotkey to be used in the right place. Then focus on hitting max suplly of my commander before the other. Spellcasters, support or siege units I prefer using my own commander as well unless ally ones are really good.
About bases: usually allies that have left doesn’t fully saturate main and/or expo, so I do that and use 2 armies.
Playing solo I remove ally’s workers from mining, playing solo with 3-4 bases takes away the point of solo unless it’s just for funsies.
For missions other than temple of the past and dead of night, I just use the extra income from my ally’s initial base and play like solo.
For temple of the past, I will take all expansions. There are no enemy attack until 3:15 so it is relatively easier to do the macro. I will think about building two armies. My main army is to handle most of the stuff while the backup army from my ally is just to tank for a while if there are attacks from multi front. I will mainly build air units from my ally and set a rally point to its side of entry point.
On Dead of night, I will think more on how I can defend better. I will build the most defensive unit/structure either from me or my ally. The main army of mine will be using resources from both bases and I will try to kill structures as fast as I can.
This suggestion is mainly for medium level player. If you like solo(like me), you find it super exciting to see your ally leave in a game.
Depends on the matchup, if my partner was playing a CO I enjoy than I stick around and mash the two together to make a super army. Especially fun when the two COs cover each other’s army weaknesses. I personally do take 4 bases, though I tend to just F2 the massive ball together to reduce the overall micro-ness of it all.
If it’s one I’m not so fond of, then I go ahead and leave.
In most cases the game gets much easier if your ally leaves right away. Instant 2 base economy for one commander makes that commander ramp up very quickly and all of the commanders can handle the maps solo on brutal, so you really dont need an ally. I would even suggest just staying on those two bases rather than taking any expansions as they require more supply and more time spent building up that economy as opposed to dumping it all into army right away, not to mention protecting those bases ontop of the mains.
Personally I will just leave if my ally leaves immediately, I queued for coop not maguro maps. You can always purge your starcraft2coop stat page of the instant losses anyways
I only stay if I feel like doing something fun like full archon army.
I dunno how to do that but I am not sure I would do it. Winning despite your ally leaving is an additional challenge and accounts for most of my losses. It also helps you realize your own limitations and to try out comps you think could work but really do not.
Like for example I had the brilliant idea to try make the anti ground force (spinlot and else) with my Artanis lvl 4 while making VRs with my insta leaving Vorazun lvl 1 ally on void launch against toss (toss so little to no AOE vs air). I eventually got cleaned for the last wave of shuttles (Hybrids do have AOE anti air and they spawned plenty) letting me reflect about the meaning of life, the greatest marvels in the universe and in particular what kind of dumbass would not use the strongest unit of each commander, DTs for anti ground and dragoons for anti air.
Well, with a lvl.1 Vorazun, DTs aren’t that awesome yet so spinlots against ground wasn’t a bad choice so you could save gas for AA.
But most of the minerals should probably have gone to cannons.
If you go up to a 3-4 base economy you can build a crazy amount of them.
The issue with spinlots is that they keep dying while even lvl 1 DTs have their fury attack. VRs were also much less safe than I anticipated (a few HT storms softened them up and Hybrids destroyed them).
Maybe photons would have worked but I was not confident with them against toss (although since it was master and Machines and not immo heavy it could have been a good idea).
Cannons are for mineral dump, and to soak up damage, I think you hamstrung yourself a great deal by not massing them to support your army.
And don’t think of spinlots as something sustainable, just have a dozen to throw at the enemy for each wave, either that or run them away immediately after their whirlwind stops.
Phoenix might have worked better for you than Void Rays, if you micro them. They are fast enough to run away from storm.
I don’t normally build them, but they are pretty fun on that specific map and you can engage the enemy air over impassable terrain to make it easier on yourself by beating them piecemal.
I just try to find fun in this ‘ded gaem’ so I secretly wish for my ally to leave at the start of every game. sometimes my ally leaves at a crucial part of the mission when things start going badly and I find out that he’s been banking 10k resources and I’m immediately able to turn the situation around and win. those kind of games are the best
All ‘lots’ die easy. Seems like they are design that way. Spinlots spins until they disappears. Kaldalis punches things until it dies and then respawns. Centrions charges punch then dies unless they are cloaked. Sentinents charges start punching, die, then revived then die again.
Back to spinlots, they are good against light units in large quantity. Put power field on spawn, place a few spinlots they could clear most of that wave. For Hybrids I use immortals or reavers.
