Still no way to play protoss in PvT after ghost get EMP upgrade

General Discussion
41

You have not commented on that at all.

If i can counter with my own units your saying my army is literally next to my prism. removing any surprise of attack. Also removing ANY form of actually engaging with the prism vs vikings.

You dont care? You mean you dont have any actuall legit arguments. You are infact gold league so that should say more then enough. You have no clue how reall games play out at all if you dont understand what i just typed.

I am not cherrypicking at all, i am looking at the pletora of options terran has to shutdown a warpprism. and there is NOTHING that actually looks REMOTELY close to being able to counteract that.

I like how you state that i am ignoring something by responding to something.
Typical illogical terran mindset. You cant think rationally. And thats proof of it.

The entire notion is that i am seeking the responses protoss CAN do. And i am literally shutting every single one of those options down, because i actually DO have the experience of facing said challenges and ALWAYS seeing a terran just spam EMP over my army AND my prism, amoving through after pressing stim.

I am glad you dont want to discuss actuall factual game knowledge. Because its pointless. You are in gold.

You say i dont have experience in the actual game. I say you dont even have the experience to see what i actually mean, because you lack the skill to do so.

And in every wich case ive seen various reactions from the terran to shut it all down.

The mere notions that you are trying to wiff me off as someone unknowledgable because you dont even know that these arent just ā€˜theoriesā€™ but actually used in practise.

Just look at ANY gm stream of PvT.

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42

Lemme rephrase that for you:

ā€œI dont have any arguments asto why you are trash. so i call you trash eventho i dont know you or your playstyle at allā€

ā€œI preffer to ignore anything that could harm terran becoming balanced.ā€

  • Terran fanboy.

The entire notion that you are here discussing with me whilst having nothing to say for yourself.

Shows you are a waste of time.

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43

If the Warp Prism is not near your army at the time, just retreat to your army. The Warp Prism is faster than all of the units you are afraid of.

Furthermore, if it is Vikings or Marines you can drop a Storm, use the ranged pickup and keep running.

The fact is that you have plenty of options with Protoss, you just donā€™t care enough to even bother thinking about what you can do. You would rather complain on the forums about everything.

44

Youā€™re a low level player whining about balance. Youre trash. End of story. Bad players dont know how bad they really are.
Prove me wrong. Go send a replay to harstem and heā€™ll call you trash too.

45

Except if i move my prism to my army. How will i storm then?

The entire premise of this discussion was that storm cannot be used vs the longer range EMP.

People tell me the prism is the so called solution.

And now you are telling me i shouldnt move my prism to storm but i should keep it clumped with my army.

If a prism comes close to terran army vikings auto kill it. we just established that already. I cant fly allong and pretend my prism is invisilbe to the AUTO attack of the vikings.

The fact that you dont state any of those options clearly shows there are no true options that arent discussed in this thread yet.

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46

Your prism was discovered or caught while you were trying to storm. If your opponent spots that and goes to your prism, the most you can do is storm the pursuing units and run back to the army.

Surprise attacks do not work when the opponent catches them first, which is the scenario you are presenting whether you realize it or not.

The case where you keep the HT in your Warp Prism near your army to protect them until you are ready to storm the approaching army is a separate case, although one can easily flow into the other based on your actions.

47

Getting the upgrade for the warpprism gives it speed. It still dies as easily. it still doesnt teleport, it still vulnerable to damage.

I can try to fly close to the terran army and then get shunned away by the vikings. I can drop once i get in range of said vikings and storm once and lose the prism.

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48

And it is still faster than all of the pursuing units.

Warp Prisms have 5 pickup range, you can drop 1 Templar while moving, cast Storm, and pickup all without stopping.

49

You dont understand what i mean with the 1 viking volley or?

If my opponent sees a prism with HT and he isnt making sure his vikings push my prism away, he is bad at the game. Its called zoning out. Terrans have the ability to actually use multiple control groups for vikings and there army you know this?

If he is zoning out and i come to close, he WILL 1 shot it immediatly, no amount of speed will stop that. Once in range no matter how fast the prism is, it still takes letahl 1 shot volley damage.

Also once i do drop my HT off ,terran can literally spam EMP, the other HT will auto drop and no storms where actually used.

This also requires a tremendous amount of micro from dropping clicking the prism, unloading the ht, selecting ht, clicking storm, targetting storm while at the same time in that milisecond timeframe i also need to run away with my prism. hope my opponent sucks and cant queue cast EMP so i CAN even storm, while paying attention to where his vikings are so they dont shoot my prism down.

While managing my armies positioning.

Terran has to :click vikings to where he sees prism, edge it away from his army. and fast-cast emp.

terran doesnt lose anything at all.

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50

I do understand, and I also understand that you are not going to be hit with that Viking volley unless you mess up (move forward into Vikings or get unlucky because you tried to approach without scouting in any way first).

You probably shouldnā€™t fill the Warp Prism to the brim if you are using it for harassment anyway, since that is the case where it is most likely to get picked off.

51

You clearly have no clue at all how detrimental that prism is.

Either it hits, or you auto loss.

The prism is the only ā€œhope terran doesnt notice this intimeā€ thing protosses can still even DO to storm.

EMP removed storm from the game.

And without storm, there is not a SINGLE protoss army composition that can rival terrans in the current state of the game while maxed out.

Vikings dominate the skies already, making collosi obsolete. Ghost already shave EVERYTHING from buildings to units into obscurity.

Our ā€˜last graceā€™ was the disruptor. A unit 80% of the protoss community doesnt even want in the game.

And what does the disruptor do? It makes sure you die.
Even if you hit a juicy clump once or twice in a macro game, it doesnt matter. Protoss cant do any finishing blows anymore because of EMP.

And anyone stating you have to remove ghost with disruptors, has never even touched the disruptor at all.

It is not a glorified baneling. Banelings are better.

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52

A fast unit that can warp in reinforcements and save units from dying? Warp Prisms are fairly useful, that is why pros use them in tournaments regularly.

Note quite. You can sneak up with individual HT, it is just far more risky. You can also keep your HT split somewhat behind your army and move them forward to Storm when the Terran army engages, etc.

Storm is still used regularly in professional PvT, even when the Terran player has plenty of Ghosts for EMP.

You have 3 splash damage options to weaken the Terran army (ignoring Archons because those are better in smaller engagements). Disruptors, HT, and Colossus; they each have weaknesses and counters, yet they are each quite effective when used or protected properly.

53

Theres a difference between detrimental and usefullā€¦

Learn that difference before you talk about the prism.

Also you cannot split HT from EMP. thats the entire point.

and yes you can hide and hope to flank terran armies, but if a terran is decent he will scan/scout and first LEARN how the map works before he blindly amoves across the map. Also a hail mary HT that gets 1 storm off in the middle of the map ussually doesnt do anything. Because a decent terran always watches his army and doesnt afk bathe in storms like Gold league terrans do and then heals up using his medivacs.

EMP when spammed with the radius. hits ALL protoss units. Not just a sideline. You cannot split HT and hope they dont get hit because that simply doesnt happen. Scan will make sure terran know EXACLY how many ht there are and where theyr at.

3 splash damage units. All with there respective hardcounters, wich protoss cant do anything about anymore because theyve made sure EMP always wins the fight.

You dont seem to understand how important high templar are for protoss.

What kind of anti air does protoss have versus viking? Stalkers? that melt to 200/200 bio? No. The only viable awnser to allot of vikings IS storm.

storm gets shut down by EMP. basically all the time due to the increase in range.

So without storm, you dont have collosi because your collosi drop like flies vs the vikings. Collosi require 5 hits on a ghost to kill it btw.

So whats left. The disruptor, the child nobody wanted.

The only AoE units thats cost effective FOR THE OPPONENT.

Even if you hit 1 or 2 perfect disruptor balls, you still miss atleast 4 if you have 6, thats 900/900, aka 7 potential zealots and 3 high templar approx. This is because the Nova has an extremely small AoE and FORCES you to afk with it for 27 seconds.

Protoss gateway units cant do ANYTHING versus MMM. Only a chargelot timing where the protoss has MORE chargelots then you have MMM works.

Upgrade wise protoss is forced to stay ontop because of how severly gateway units fall off in frontal engagements.

200/200 MMM vs 200/200 gateway army = 180/200 MMM vs 1/200 gateway army.

I hope Deepmind actually becomes a sc2 god. Then you will see how favoured terran trully is.

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54

Protoss would not make Warp Prisms, Colossus, or Disruptors if they were detrimental.

You can, but you have to split them before EMP because they donā€™t have the speed to dodge the projectile; or you can protect them in Warp Prisms until after the Ghosts EMP or until it is safer to drop them.

55

Lol, i meant forced. My bad. Ive been misusing that for quite some time nowā€¦

Just google translated it. And you are correct that was NOT what i was going for.

You dont understand why you cant split high templar?

The AoE of EMP is bigger with the upgrade remember? you need 3 empā€™s to fully blanket an entire protoss army. That means frontlines backlines AND sidelines. Everything.

Scan shows the terran how many high templar there are in range. And a good terran keeps scanning SPECIFICALLY for high templar.

Vikings can literally suicide into the prism if theyr enmass to shutdown HT

Wich basically leaves everything protoss to die. due to having half the lives. no energy for important spells and mostly compromised of gateway units that cant hold on there own.

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56

That is one compact or small army.

57

No its just that 2.0 radius is actually really large.

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58

I know how large a 2.0 radius is, and I know how large and spread my armies usually are.

If you can get my entire army with 4 Fungals (which have a slightly larger radius than EMP), then I am messing up, it doesnā€™t matter what faction I am playing in that case.

59

Well thats probably because you arent facing people who actually engage you properly.

ussually engagements happen near bases. Most bases arent open area and have rocks and cliffs, chokes and towers.

If you want to move your army as a protoss while keeping it pre-spread youve just lost all your HT because theyr lagging behind.

if HTā€™s movement speed was faster the rest of the army ussually wouldnt need to wait for them.

The problem is they are allot slower. Wich makes moving around with a protoss army allot slower then a terrans. You have to wait for HT to even get to your army, or your constantly protecting your HT from behind.

You cannot expect a unit to split when its not even near the army yet because of how spread out most bases are becomming.

Collosi need an army otherwise they just get sniped, so do disruptors. So you cant spread too thin as protoss.

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60

Blockquote
Lol. ā€œDont clump up, splitā€ yeah I guess spliting against a spammable 100 damage to shield instant, AOE must be a thing right.

Yes it is actually. Go watch Special stream and micro his army versus protoss with colossus. If low league protoss decided to actually micro more besides rely on a death ball then they might actually avoid critical shield removal damage against Ghost.

Typical Protoss just A-move and rely on sentry for FF, psi storm, blink, charge, and its heavy hitter Immortals and backed up by things like Colossus. They hardly think to split their army. Most of the time they probably donā€™t need to. But then you miss out on a good spread arc to maximize dps.

Terran split all the time for psi storm and banelings. A protoss player can learn a thing or two with this. But Iā€™m just a guy thinking outside the box again and speaking to a deaf crowd.

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