So with Alarak’s skytoss fleet of destruction in full swing I came across the little detail that the Tal’darim have an (incomplete) carrier model labelled “Skylord” and I instantly started to imagine what the stats of it could be and how Shadow of Death could be rebalanced.
Shadow of Death:
- Same advantages and disadvantages as current.
- Stargate and Fleet Beacon buildings unlocked.
- Stargate is required to build destroyers.
- Burning Skies split into 2 researches at Fleet Beacon: Thermal Lance (unlocks Thermal Lance ability for the Mothership and Shadow Fleet (increases maximum charges from 4 to 8 and decreases charge cooldown from 20 seconds to 10 seconds)
- Warprisms may hold a Havoc externally (forming a flying Havoc)
- Upgrades are separated into Ground and Air
- Upgrades at Fleet Beacon for Destroyers (increase splash damage and shields maybe via a soul absorption mechanic)
- New unit: Skylord
Skylord:
- built at the Stargate
- requires a Fleet Beacon
- similar stats to Carrier and deploys interceptors
- interceptor attack is a long thin fixed length AoE twin ray (laser)
- attack does about 50% that of normal carrier except versus light/biological against which it does similar to carrier (but with benefit of splash)
- interceptors have a shield sharing ability that gives the protected tech unit 50% damage reduction but reduces the interceptors shield at the same rate
- on shield depletion the interceptor will suicide into the attacking unit doing splash damage and bonus damage versus armoured, massive and structures
- carrier has ability to direct all interceptors to suicide into target
- carrier upgrades at fleet beacon to build and deploy interceptors faster
- skylords should be balanced to not be a massable unit but rather providing support to other compositions
- skylords could be available to Alarak in general (providing defense to mech or ascendant based builds and powering empower me for Tyrant)
So, what do you think? How would you balance Shadow of Death? What do you think the stats of the Skylord could be?
Why does it need to be “rebalanced” at all? I’m not sure you’ve made this clear. Or am I to understand that the “addition of Skylord” somehow makes P3 more overpowered. In which case, I’m not sure you’ve made it clear that Skylord is even good.
Just to clarify on why I feel your version of Skylord isn’t “that good”, therefore doesn’t warrant as a premise to change P3 for a “need to rebalance”.
- Carriers are generally known as high cost, low DPS, cool en masse but viable only then type of unit.
- Your version of Skylord does 1/2 dmg, which makes them actually worse. This is because anything that deals heavy damage has high armor (ie. BC, Carriers, any high tech really). This means the interceptors will be like annoying flies chipping away at them… aka taking a very long time thus taking a lot of damage.
- This brings us to the no-heal-mechanic of Alarak. For such an expensive, high tech, low damage unit, it can’t even sustain (unlike Karax’s carriers, which is only decent due to its auto-healing(s), or Fenix’s carriers, which is only good due to its low cost and tech requirements).
- AoE is not what Alarak lack. In fact, I would go as far as saying he is overly abundant on AoE. For a carrier-like unit, the Skylord does AoE to light or small units, which it doesn’t excel at (per your points above) only matches in dps. Why wouldn’t the player just Destruction Wave them?
- Your interceptor mechanic shares damage is the one redeeming quality to Skylord’s sustainability issue. However, it is made worse via your next ability “suicidal interceptors”, leaving them attackless. So unless these suicidal interceptors perform better than Scourges… which would be very weird and definitely overpowered.
I think as a discussion, if you wanted to add Skylord then that’s perfectly fine (even your version of it). If you feel adding this unit somehow makes P3 overpowered, then I think you need to clarify on why.
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Great reply thank you!
About the balance of P3 I feel that the fact you can get to 200 supply without building any structures besides pylons is a bit against the intention of the game. While this can be disastrous against some compositions it does work against most with a minimal amount of micro and allows the map to be cleared faster than any other commander I’ve played or seen been played (this might not apply to some commanders in the hands of some very skillful players). Even with my current build of Mothership/Nexus -> triple forge -> ascendants I wonder often if I might just be better skipping all tech and focusing on micro (probably armor upgrades are a waste but I like to see the 3/3/3).
My intention with my suggested rebalance isn’t to make Alarak less powerful overall but to make the early game a little slower and the late game air composition a little more viable (while still maintaining the viability of other compositions) while conforming the commander to traditional starcraft values of tech buildings and upgrades.
About the Skylord, I was simply trying to come up with a carrier like unit that was different enough to a carrier to warrant a new name and graphic using mechanics which fit with the theme of Alarak. Mixing a few into current compositions would allow Ascendants, Vanguards and Wrathwalkers to function better keeping enemies in place and providing them with defense (my experience of playing Alarak is that he is a “glass cannon” and suffers from any lapse in attention and recovering is difficult due to Destroyer cooldown, PO stacks or AoS stacks). Being able to build and deploy interceptors twice as fast should make the suicide mechanic viable (but contributes to the long ramp up time for this unit). The damage could certainly be tweaked (perhaps making the Skylord take 8 supply with increased vitals and doing 75% damage of regular carrier and 125% to light/biological - actually I prefer the idea of the Skylord costing 10 supply as I can imagine the Tal’darim would have their interceptors manned with supplicants). As for the sustain of the unit the priority for the interceptors shield sharing ability would always have the Skylord as priority meaning that all 8 interceptors shields would have been depleted and all would have suicided into attacking units before the vitals of the Skylord were depleted.
I would certainly take suggestions on alternative stats for the Skylord! (Hence the topic). What carrier like unit would fit the Tal’darim?
When the Shadow of Death first came out its power was so weak (Mothership and Destroyer was as half as powerful), so in response I made a custom mode where Alarak can deploy Tal’Darim Air units (Sky Talon, Eye of Slayn and Skylord).
But as it is now, It is absolutely wonderful. Maybe if Jinara can be made into co-op commander I’m sure she will bring out the Skylord.
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If there was a new carrier, I wish the old idea of the Shuriken was dug (common practice in co-op).
Melee, and potentially explosives on death, interceptors may fit Alarak image.
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Apparently someone has not played Nova. At all. They literally play the exact same way, except Nova builds less structures overall, her units cost more but have the trade off of being insanely good (except for Hellion/Hellbat Rangers), and Nova’s top bars are also unrestricted, unlike Alarak’s. (Once you call down the Mothership, you can’t call down a second one, only refreshes the first.)
Leave Shadow of Death alone. It is fine where it is.
Tbh, I think the Skylord would make the most sense added to P2.
Why?
- Mothership unavailable can be switched to “now can build Skylord in Stargate”.
- Adds uniqueness to his prestige by said addition without taking away its focus on Alarak’s Empower Me buff of the original prestige pros/cons.
- It doesn’t take away the focus. Unlikely in P1, this might become more relevant than Wrathwalkers. Unlikely in P3, as this might become irrelevant compare to Destroyers/MS.
Step in the right direction? I think so! 
How would units like Interceptors be handled with Empower Me? Would they provide power, or be ignored? What would their supply value be?
So many questions…
I would say they should be ignored. This gives a more consistent supply calculation with each Skylord unit itself. Presumably interceptors die similarly as they do with any carrier-type unit.
His version of it has a ‘suicidal function’, which means if interceptors were in the EE calculation, then even at 1 supply each, that’s quite the fluctuation from 6-8 Skylord +/- 8-15 additional supply of interceptors (however many decided for them to have each lol, idk). Of course, the player wouldn’t just run “one Skylord”. So the larger portion of interceptors would weigh heavily in EE calculation between “player kamakazi’d a bunch interceptors” vs “not”.
Well, Empower Me can use the ally units, so with a Karax/Fenix/H&H you can probably find the devs already chosen answer.
Interceptor, interdictor, locust, broodling, roachling, mecha ravager… and the rest of the units that do not have supply can not contribute the Empower Me buff because Empower Me bonus depends on the supply cost of the units.
Interceptor, broodling, locusts… are valid target for Empower Me but because they have 0 supply cost, they give Empower Me 0 increment value.
In triggers, in Mission (COOP) / Data Utilities / Alarak / Empower Me, Slaves / CM_Alarak_EmpowerUpdate, there is a special case to give (3) power from 0 supply heroes (and something else, probably H&H Mira ship whose name elude my mind right now).
I guess that could always be extended for Alarak interceptors if it was really needed.
This makes a lot of sense. Then again, you have things like the Death Fleet, in which the Mothership provides… I believe 10 * whatever the mechanical bonus is for Alarak, and the Destroyers which are 3 * the mech value, even though they are a temporary calldown (assuming P0/P1, only Mothership has this in P3, as Destroyers are given a hard supply cost.)
That’s something i love to check too.
If SC2 is truly War3 improved version, i hope it does retain a function of the old game.
In War3, summoned units even though they have supply cost take no supply since the duration is limited.
I wonder if it’s also true to SC2
It very well could be. I honestly don’t know, as I’m not one who tinkers with the editors.
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