In offensive attacks it’s cyclone favor in defensive it’s not.
Siege tanks would be used to aid cyclones in defense posture.
The real change was fact that they did poor against unit that they should been god against.
I guess they didn’t want Thor unit where they buff it’s AA didn’t nerf it’s high dps ground
So unfortunately I haven’t managed to successfully open it yet because it depends on Observer Plus v1.11, but the only version I can find is v1.10 and trying to open it in the editor leaves a lot of missing information. I’m missing a step somewhere.
Just as a minor note… I’ve noticed that there has been a recent update to it where Broodlings that spawn from dead Zerg buildings have their original timed life again, rather than the shortened life when launched from Brood Lords. Thought people might like that one.
according to this logic, bio tank would also be bad.
i have seen one game where HeRoMaRinE played battle mech and he also had tanks as follow. but heromarine was also favored in that game.
Yeah, unfortunately I can’t open 5.0.11 BalanceTest or make an extension mod that depends on it because it can’t find “ObserverPlus_1_11.SC2Mod”. I can only assume it’s a version that hasn’t been published publicly yet, or is only available on the Korean server (which I don’t have an account for yet).
(For the developers of Observer Plus, EU is behind at 1.9, while NA has 1.10)
As an alternative I can make a regular mod to showcase my Raven suggestions, but will be built on the live patch rather than the balance test.
I should actually have specified that Cyclones & Tanks don’t work well together “in a single engagement/battle” as I will elaborate on lower down this response.
Sorry, this post is going to get fairly long.
Bio-Tank is bad in a lot of situations.
Specifically, Bio-Tank is bad when the opponent has units that can regularly get onto the Bio (forcing friendly-fire, which is particularly deadly to the bio units), and it hemorrhages Tanks whenever the opponent has an army that can force Bio to kite or retreat long distances.
In TvZ, that basically puts Bio-Tank on a timer until Hive tech:
In TvP the main friendly-fire threat is Chargelots, but Protoss will often need a lot of chargelots and maybe splash support to make that work.
In TvT, the Siege Tank is decent against all ground units, and it can be particularly difficult to make friendly-fire a significant issue for the opponent.
Pure mech/sky (a Hellbat line buffering for Tanks, Thors, Vikings, etc) doesn’t have quite the same problems that plague Bio-Tank. Hellbats have the durability to absorb a lot of damage (with no +armor bonus), and they have a fairly powerful burst to kill anything that tries to get on top of them or the units they are defending. Both attributes make Hellbats significantly less susceptible to friendly-fire than Bio units. The extra durability also buys Siege Tanks and other heavy mech/sky units more time to shoot and dish out damage; whereas Bio would normally be forced to retreat or take heavy losses. Mech is basically stronger than Bio in direct engagements.
To loop this back to Cyclones:
Cyclones are designed around kiting, and often have the same need/urge to retreat as Bio. They also need time to refresh their lock-on, and if they fight with their auto-attack they are likely to be near enough to the enemy that some enemy ranged units can directly target them over Hellions/Hellbats, bringing down the Terran player’s firepower at a faster rate. The Terran player would have better performance in a direct battle if most of their army could kite or if they had more Siege Tanks, Thors, Vikings, Liberators, etc which don’t share the Cyclone’s downtime.
Keep in mind that Battle-mech and mech can easily swap and reuse the Hellions/Hellbats, the vehicle upgrades, and the production between them. It isn’t particularly difficult to swap between one or the other, or to use them as separate forces.
Cyclones and Tanks don’t fit particularly well together in a single battle/engagement, but there is nothing stopping a player from using Cyclones for harassment, Tanks (along with Vikings, Liberators, Thors, and/or Battlecruisers) for defense & main-army, and moving the Hellions/Hellbats around as needed. That is actually how I usually play, with a harassment force of about 3-6 Cyclones along with some of the Hellions.
I got it to work! I ended up just copying the raw XML data into my own extension mod and going from there.
https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/sc2/t/suggestion-ptr-extension-mod-raven-rework/
Special thanks to Ketroc to drawing my attention to some recent changes. They can be found here:
http(colon)(slash)(slash)rentry(dot)co(slash)uz75f
Notably, this is how the PTR currently stands:
Worker Units
ZERG
Creep Tumor
Hatchery, Lair, Hive
Viper
Ultralisk
Hydralisk
Brood Lord
Ravager
PROTOSS
Shield Battery
Observer
Archon
High Templar
Disruptor
Carrier
Sentry
Forge
TERRAN
Viking (Fighter Mode)
Liberator
Ghost
Banshee
Cyclone
Sensor Tower
Raven
MISC BUG FIXES / QOL CHANGES
All Units
Banshee
Dark Templar
Factory
Widow Mine
Cyclone
Shield Battery
Adept
Queen
Lurker
Hydralisk
Stasis Ward
Raven
Swarm Host
Hatchery, Lair, Hive
General
really? then terran’s 111 all-in at 4:00 will be very powerful ( the first liberator could arrive at the front of protoss’ base earlier)
i love this strategy so please make this change realised !
That’s what the notes say.
Thanks for informing us about the current PTR state, Crane. 
The main changes compared to what was announced seems to be :
For my part, I agree with most Z/P changes, with the exception of the Ultralisk’s leeway and the Observer’s speed.
However, I’d like to mention, that there isn’t a single unit in the game that has been nerfed more violently than the Raven :
The unit has been unchanged since November 2019, and with the exception of TvT mech players (where ravens are a powerful anti prolonged siege stalemates), I haven’t seen any complaints about it from Zerg players (who complained mainly about the snipe), nor more than occasional from Protoss players (who complained mostly about the EMP shockwaves upgrade).
It has a" free" immobile spawn spell, which is balanced out by Zerg having mainly two free mobile spawned units (locusts, broodlings ± changelings), and protoss having one extremely cheap mobile spawned unit (the interceptor).
Its splash spell does nothing on its own, and so is a tier below compared to assist AoE such as the Fungle, the Parasitic bomb ; not to mention first tier AoE (storm, disruption).
So if it’s not a problematic unit in TvP nor TvZ, why nerf it ? If the aim is to nerf it in TvT, then even there it doesn’t makes sense to buff its cost and nerf its abilities, as that will buff its use in raven marine tank allins (where the attacking player gets 2-3 ravens to matrix all opponent’s tanks), and discourage its other spells use (AAM in particular), which found more use later in the game.
Long story short, I usually understand most proposed changes regarding all races, but there I still don’t get why the raven would need to get nerfed (again). 
Yeah, I’m still confused by the Raven, and I fear they removed the Corvid Reactor because they forgot to add it back or they’re worried about turret spam in the endgame. I fear the professional players will use the excuse of removing Corvid Reactor because “we don’t use it”, but it’s sometimes used in lower leagues and I fear it will remove future diversity where a professional will research it as part of their build, if just to prepare for the endgame.
I heard one problem is that TvT endgame armies tend to be Marine/Tank/Viking, with the marines slowly being replaced with Ravens, and that apparently needs to be discouraged. I would argue for reverting the Raven’s changes but then changing the Auto-Turret’s weapon with a projectile-based one so there’s more overkilling and so marines still have a purpose with their hitscan damage.
ADDENDUM: Regarding the Observer buffs, it’s reverting a change where Blizzard slowed down the Observer because of the ‘disappointment’ of just failling to kill one when you scan it because it managed to dart outside of the zone where it could be seen.
I think you are wrong. The reason you would use an auto-turret in tvt is because your marines can’t engage, or they would be melted into pieces if try to. The auto-turrets are being thrown right in front of the tanks, forcing a friendly fire and killing the tanks. So marines can’t replace auto-turrets at all. They can be used in combination with interference matrix, which would be still the option after the patch.
The issue with terran’s late game is that it’s dominated by the siege tank. It’s impossible for ground units to attack, so they move up to massing air units. The siege tank / liberator are the real issues. One or two or three are fine, but 15 of them completely stalls the progression of the game. There need to be timing windows where the tanks / liberators become obsolete. They can only stall for so long. They buy you time, but can’t last forever.
This issue extends well beyond TvT which is why, I believe, they are nerfing the sensor tower range. The sensor tower allows the Terran to always know where enemy attacks are going to hit, which makes it too easy to move your tanks into position to defend. Reducing the range means the terran will be slightly slower to notice the attack, and the tanks won’t be able to move as far forward before having to siege. So it’s equivalent to pushing the siege tanks backwards a bit. This effectively reduces the area that a siege tank can adequately defend. In late game scenarios where you have to take far-off bases, the siege tanks are greatly weakened. That means they have a power-curve. They are strongest in the mid game, but once the terran has to expand to far off expansions they become a lot weaker.
1 more suggestion:
Can you make units that are on HOLD POSITION or PATROL commands be excluded from being selected with F2? This would make holding watch towers, keeping medivacs in corners, and keeping zealots in the wall a lot easier.
Thanks!
my proposed changes actually fixes the game, not this garbage.
In order to fix it we must tackle it from the ground up which is what my changes does.
I can’t say I know for sure what’s happening internally, although I get the sense that a lot of the patch proposals, in both Co-op and Versus modes, are being performed by third parties, with Versus in particular being done by high-level professional players. The problem with this is that at the professional level, there’s a large emphasis on putting on a good show, wishing to enforce games that are fast-paced and dynamic. And while I don’t doubt the skills of the professional players, I find a lot of their games play in a very particular way.
I suppose some things should be considered from a game design perspective rather than “what do the professionals currently do”? The Raven, having been brought up so much, is being looked at as if you’re building an Oracle… you build one, maybe two, when you first get your Starport, then hotswap it back to a Reactor instead of the Tech Lab, never to use it again… at least that is what is trying to be encouraged, it seems. The problem is that professional players have the micro mechanics to keep their Oracles alive for the rest of the game, so it can keep building value with Revelation and Statis Wards. All of the current proposals to Ravens are about getting it out as fast as possible, but then tone down its power so it’s not unbalanced in the early game, which then harms its usefulness in the late-game when you have more Orbital Command energy available for scans (hence you don’t need them for mobile detection all that much), and yet Auto-Turrets and the Anti-Armor Missile are being weakened. Maybe Ravens are rarely, if ever, used in match-ups outside of TvT, and a fast Raven may help more in TvZ to clear creep, but harming its late-game potential is the wrong approach, I feel. I think it would be better to see if its abilities can be made more useful. e.g. Having Interference Matrix also reduce the unit’s vision to 1 and allowing it to target Overlords and Overseers (give them the Psionic tag) could produce some interesting engagements when you disable an enemy’s detection or high ground vision (or just a unit that’s further ahead of the tank line acting as a spotter).
I get the impression that some decisions are possibly a little narrow-minded. One that’s been around for a while now is the Tectonic Destabilizers for Tempests. I can understand the reasoning for it… PvZ matches had devolved into “Spore Forests” and Vipers that slowly creep forward and in the right hands are very difficult to break through, and this was compounded with the nerf to Feedback that prevented High Templars from outright killing full-energy Vipers, so with needing a long-range unit that could pick apart the forest while being able to keep a relative safe distance from enemy Vipers, the Tempest was the logical option (Carriers are a bit too slow and a large number of Spores, coupled with Fungal Growth, would shoot down Interceptors). The problem though is that this caused an overlap between Tempests and Carriers, with Carriers supposed to be assault units while Tempests are a strange mix between a siege unit and siege breaker, and more importantly, it adversely affects other match-ups that rely somewhat on structures, such as mech. In PvT(mech), Terran players rely more on Missile Turrets, Sensor Towers and Planetary Fotresses because of mech’s relative immobility, but the Tempest already counters most mech units and trades fairly evenly with Thors, but at the same time, a group of them will mincemeat an expansion very quickly and there’s not really mucn you can do except to overproduce Vikings, which come with its own problems (vulnerable to Blink Stalkers after kiting with the Tempests and eats into supply that might be better suited to Siege Tank, Thor and Hellbat production). More than anything it’s just something that feels a little unfair.
I do have my own suggestions for the Tempest problem, but I’m not sure if it will be liked all that much, and it’s hard to suggest anything without being called biased (I main Protoss and off-race as Terran).
In the end just another nerf for unit who already had no role in game cause overkill and slow rate of fire
Honestly, the best use I find Tempests personally is in late-game PvT(bio) where the Terran player has ranged Liberators in play (Advanced Ballistics will zone out Disruptors) and you’re otherwise in a position where you can’t engage without taking heavy losses (especially if there are also Ghosts out) - using an Oracle (which will probably get destroyed) to cast Revelation, you can force a more favourable engagement by having the Tempests fire upon the LIberators using their superior 15 air-to-air range. Marines absolutely shred them though even with their +2 base armour, so you have to keep them out of harm’s way. Notably, their precise damage output doesn’t really come into play (hence neither does the upgrade)… it’s about the range and doing token damage to force the engagement before the Terran player loses all of their Liberators over time.
Tempests are also otherwise very good against enemy Carriers, Colossi and Battlecruisers (not so much Brood Lords because Corruptors tend to support them). Against mech units they are quite strong all round because Siege Tanks can’t shoot up and are rather immobile and Cyclones die in 3 shots. They are fairly even cost-for-cost against Thors, and equal each other’s attack ranges.
Auto turrets have the same issue that locusts do, albeit on a smaller scale due to their cast range, that is that they’re free. Neither the auto turret or the locust require the caster to stick around, and both being ranged means that they can to some extent they can stack DPS.
The broodling has such a short lifespan that it forces the broodlord to stay in a somewhat dangerous range, and being melee it also can’t stack damage the same way ranged DPS units can.
Frankly speaking, I would like to see AT and Locusts removed the same way IT was, and see them replaced with something thats not a free unit, or alternatively push a mineral cost on them the same way Interceptors do.
Because the observer was already hard enough to spot and it was pretty damn quick. When that patch was in, there were multiple instances where players dropped multiple scans centered on the obs to kill the observer and failed to do so - without needing the obs upgrade.
Having said that, the raven changes may mean that this reversion might be okay because it makes the raven significantly more accessible in opening builds with cost and build time reduction.
No. This really isn’t needed imo.
This opens the topic of how much mundane micro do you want to have in the game?
The more such micro there is the more mechanically demanding the game is, but it gives player less time for “strategic” decisions.
For example, what if we give “select all production” button to everybody like there is “select all Gateways” button for Protoss? (if I got a penny for every game I lost because I accidently unbinded all my production…)
What if your current production is displayed in game like it is when watching a replay?
What if we make it possible to use abilities/spells for all units selected in a group (like for Tychus in co-op), removing Tab-Tab-Tab from group micro requirement?
What if we add option on what alerts Space button move camera on? (currently this feature is completely useless)?
What if there is a warning when you are close to supply block but not there yet?
What if…