We are excited to push Patch 5.0.11 to PTR which features various amounts of balance, bugfixes, and quality of life improvement done by our community members.
Most of these changes look nice.
- That said, the Disruptor nerf is probably unnecessary.
- Also, the Interceptor changes probably requires compensation somewhere else. Carriers relied heavily on the way that Interceptors mess with targeting AIs in order to be effective. With the lower targeting priority that no longer works, so the Carrier’s cost, build time, or stats probably need improvement.
I like any changes including the stupid ones because they change something in the gameplay and maybe it will release some new strategies so I give thumb up but lets get to the main point of the program…
Utralisks has been modified! But I would prefer to take away 1 or 2 armor points from this OP elephant instead. But I still don’t know if its actually a buff or nerf to ultralisks in the patch… Lower size means, lower splash, right? Also I don’t understand the second senence as not a native english speaker. Could anyone explain? Are they actually buffing or nerfing an ultralisk overall?
yeah not sure what the increased range slop means. thats a new one on me.
Range slop means that if a unit has already started attacking something, it can continue to attack until the enemy exits the slop range.
For example, Void Rays have a range slop of 2, so they don’t actually stop attacking their target until it moves 8+ range away or until they are given another command.
Ah, okay. Now I got this. Thanks!
SO ULTRALISK HAS BEEN ACTUALLY BUFFED?!
But vipers got nerfed now they die before pulling any terrans army. Since Vikings, Thors, ghost has equal range.
Creepy got nerfed it be one thing if hp increased 3 seconds I never saw pro game were Terran or toss had hard time instantly wiping creep.
- Creep slightly nerfed so slower maphack for zerg.
- Vipers casting abduct now takes time.
- Ravager taking some more time to morph, which might roach-ravager pushes just that tiny little bit slower.
- Observers and high templars now have slow instead of glacial speed.
- No more house-archons.
- slight nerf to disruptors hopefully will change PvP a bit and allow for other compositions than stalker disruptor.
- Raven rework.
- An attempt to make hydralisks feasable again.
Things I’m unsure about:
- The reworking of the broodlord: while the duration of the broodlings sounds good, I wonder if they didn’t make them too fast now since they have a big range.
- the combination of faster forge upgrades on one side and the shield battery nerf on the other side. This feels like toss is gonna be in a world of hurt in early games, especially since no other buffs seem to be present to ground units
- the nerfing of the carrier: on one hand it’s good that they try to make them less of a unit that can conquer all but the nerfs make me wonder if zerg won’t just roflstomp on toss now. SC II already had such a period. It would be a shame if that would occur again.
Things that sound bad:
- Ghost Base EMP should never have been increased. Disabling the enhanced shockwaves was fine and frankly they should have gotten a nerf to their HP as well for the all-around unit they currently are.
- The absence of any ground units from toss getting a slight buff. They could have done so much more to make tossplayers go ground more in combination with nerfing battery overcharge.
That is a finish cast time. It takes place after the ability goes off, so the target is already getting pulled. Killing the Viper won’t cancel anything. I quickly tested the change in editor on the LOTV unit-testor map to confirm that.
Interestingly, the Abduct change actually looks more natural because the Viper remains in place while the target is getting pulled (the pull time and finish time are about the same). The “current” Viper can move away from the spot up to almost 3 range away from the pull location by the time that Abduct finishes.
WHAT A JOKE
terran nerfed again
biased protoss and zerg team balance
ghost, raven doesnt a nerf
LOL terran nerfed more
you realize that moving units can move away and ghost target gets disabled, ghost are useless now
here’s my prospective as a m1/gm terran player I think a lot of these changes are reasonable, but im not a fan of some:
what I like:
this is just a qol change that should have been in the game from the start, its was super stupid in pvz especially, I don’t think anyone can complain about this change. Nice!
even though it will be a bit annoying I’m good with this it was a weird thing to nerf way back then. The one interaction i don’t like about this is its now just that little bit harder to scan and kill and obs spotting for 4 gate blink stalker as terran, still I’m good with it.
This change Mainly has implications for tvt. having the raven be a cheaper but weaker unit is honestly very nice in my opinion, this helps balance the strength of raven openings against other builds and will shake up the meta a bit. This is also a direct buff in other matchups where the raven was often a bit to cost prohibitive to be a good option in comparison to other starport units, I could see terrans experimenting with raven hellion openings vs zerg as a more creep denying focused macro opening. Vs toss I could also see this being a nice soft nerf to dt allins, which although not imba are an annoying coinflip build. Overall this is a very nice change. thumbs up. ( i dont like the buff to bad toss players though that makes it so disabled collosi wont walk into your army that comes from the bug fix)
as a terran player honestly carriers were never that big of a deal to begin with, probably see them 1 in 60 games, but I know that in zvp, pvp, team games, and lower levels of play they are a menace. I think nerfing them is good for the game. the priority change definitely will help lower level players deal with them. I think that since good players almost always target the carriers instead of the interceptors this change is more a qol change for metal league players. The interceptor change is also a slight buff to marines and hydras vs them which could matter when the carriers don’t have splash under them and are low in number. Nice.
Banshee Hyperflight Rotors: Since this saw basically 0 competitive play and was only used in meme builds I think that buffing it is good. I could see people experimenting with it in tvz, maybe their is a build where you make 3-4 banshees with 3 cc and get this before/instead of cloak. I think their might be some niche uses for this now, but overall I dont think it changes that much, we still wont see it that often (unless I’m very wrong about how good this upgrade is)
this unit was to powerful when it hit a good shot. Im biased as a terran player about it admittedly but I’m not going to complain about nerfing it, I approve. ( it does kill my pvz style though, but i can live with that)
Ht move speed:
this is not that big of a change but Im ok with it, I think that it will help them stay with your army better and also let you split them up when facing banes/aoe. Im ok with it.
sentry build time:
nice small buff to defending certain allins, I’m good with that. I think it most heavily affects pvp, and pvz though.
viper abduct nerf:
this is really not that big of a nerf, but it does give you a window to fight back against having your units abducted. Nice.
Shield battery nerf & bug fix:
Shield batteries impact in not just early but midgame fights was to powerful in my opinion. in general it just was to impactful of a defensive mechanic and allowed toss to be very very greedy. Its important that toss have something like this in the game or certain allins would be busted. But it was to good. I think adjusting its power level is a good change.
Changes I’m meh about:
Creep nerf: This small enough it will only affect the very best zerg pros, most zergs are not good enough at macro to maximize the cooldown, also alot of the excessive amount of creep on the map is not due to repeat spawns of creep but mass creep spam from 13+ queens, this really does not do enough in my opinion to nerf this extremely opressive mechanic.
Ultras are kind of bad, but buffing them while nerfing ghosts worries me, Guess we will see how this plays out, I’m not a huge fan of buffing them given that back when they were good (8 armor patch) it was very oppressiv to play against them for terrans.
Hatchery vision range/creep spread: a buff against cannon rushes and bunker rushes. I know people don’t like playing against cheese but nerfing it like this. I’m not sure its a good idea, it reduces variety instead of increasing it because we will see even less cannon/bunker rushes at a high level.
I’m not sure how to evaluate this one, on one hand this makes the cyclone more versatile, and is a nice buff against queens, on the other hand cyclones with magfield usually was used to fight armored units like stalkers and roaches, or in mech vs tempests. It also a nerf vs buildings. This might actually be a nerf, and if so an unwarranted one, I have seen 0 people claim cyclones are an imbalanced (or even a good unit). I’m not much of a mech enjoyer so my knowledge on this one is limited but I’m skeptical about this change. ehh???
Its a small nerf to ravager allins. and a nerf to ravager morph micro zvt. this change reduces the skill cap for zergs, instead of increasing it. and nerfs an allin that was pretty much fine. Not a fan of this change, but its not that big of a deal.
I don’t think this needed to be nerfed (maybe as a terran im biased) the vison range was massive and this does significantly reduce the total area revealed. On the other hand it still basically does the same thing it did before well enough that I don’t think it will change anything. This is kind of like when they nerfed observer speed, its not a huge deal but also why?
This is a pretty big buff to toss (especially factoring in chrono boost). I think this is very powerful, I don’t really think toss needed this kind of buff. It will make gateway man in pvz even stronger, and will basically buff every type of mid to late game build toss has. I don’t think toss is hurting for power level right now. Still they also got some nerfs so I guess we will see how it shakes out.
Changes I don’t like:
As a terran player I hate the ghost changes (of course I do) The ghost was very strong, but its also the cornerstone of terran late game, while the other races mainly got small/medium nerfs terran is getting a huge nerf, with really no compensation to even it out. This is just a big loss of power level for terran in late game. Expect to see more people play like bunny with lots of 2 base allins ect. because terran is now weaker then it was before, and it is just straight up worse then it was pre patch. Other races got a buff/nerf set of changes that make me think ok they lost x but gained y so lets see how that goes. for terran I just feel like my late game is worse then before. Guess i will focus even harder on not playing late game.
now snipe is even more awkward to use (it was powerful but finicky since it can be canceled) now this ability requires you to be at the exact right range to get good value…
(I’m also not sure how the snipe is now self cancellable change will work, It might just make ghosts harder to use depending on how it is implemented.)
Also the removal of enhanced shockwaves is a really big nerf tvp. I expect terran to go from 40% of the time winning vs toss in late game situations to 35% of time with this patch… great! Yes ruptors also were nerfed but they will still be very powerful, terran straight up lost one of its strongest tools. Toss lost some defensive power but will still wreck late game, and now they have fast upgrades. IDK I dont think this is good for terran.
hydras are not great but they are good enough to get used a lot, I think power creeping them is bad, this just makes ling bane hydra stronger, I’m not seeing anything on terrans side that helps to even that out. I know i am biased but I dont think terran mid/late game is to strong vs zerg. I think that buffing zerg at these stages of the game and nerfing terran is a pretty bad move for game balance.
broodlords: I think overall they are better now, yeah you cant build up as many broodlings as before but the speed gain is a much bigger buff then the nerf they received. BL late games are some of the most boring so I’m really not happy that we are going to see that more then before.
Terran is now worse
Protoss is kind of neutral in power level change, but is weeker then before
Zerg Is now stronger then it was before the patch. Wow a patch where we buffed the race with the most championships and titles!
Look now patch was going to be perfect but this does feel pretty biased against terran, basically our useless crap got made slightly less useless (but still bad), Our raven is now usable and also not broken in tvt ( I do really like this change). But our cornerstone late game unit got hit with the nerf bat, with nothing to spread that power out to other units (big ooof).
Still it is cool to see sc2 get some attention for once. So its not all bad. Maybe we will get more patches in the future, or maybe this is the last. Time will tell.
Massive nerfs to Protoss with minor QOL changes. Massive buffs to Zerg with minor tradeoff nerfs. Massive buffs to mech but massive nerfs to bio’s late game (sensor tower/ghost). The brood buffs in particular are just going to break ZvT and I say that as a Zerg player. By the far the biggest thing you lose when you go for broods is mobility, so a mobility buff is absolutely huge. Changing the ultralisk has needed to happen for a very long time. They will still be trash against Protoss, but they will be much better against bio.
Protoss are just getting wrecked this patch. Technically the move speed increases are buffs but I think it’s a nerf when you contrast that against how most players who play Protoss do so because it’s slower paced. Increasing the pacing of Protoss is a very smart idea and I like it a lot because it will reward skilled players.
Also, the creep tumor nerf is inconsequential compared to the hatchery sight range increase. You’re going to have a chain of creep tumors reaching to the middle of the map so reducing their sight range is almost irrelevant. It’s like a 1% sight range decrease. It will make it slightly harder to keep track of enemy units that are skirting around the far-off reaches of creep. The hatchery sight range increase on the other hand is absolutely busted. Holy cow that’s a massive buff. One of the biggest weaknesses of zerg would be far-off expansions that don’t yet have creep spread. This will give zergs an extra second or two to identify a threat that could kill workers or the hatchery itself. I will take that exchange any day.
Lol i think you forgot a Lurker buff guys …
ZvT lategame was already very hard for terran but now its unwinnable, nice job
Raven buff doesnt change a lot it will still be useless lategame and on the other hand you nerf the ghost and buff Ultra, hydra, and BL
Toss doesnt need upgrades since its already «let me amove my gateball while i drink my coffe .»
Brood lords are one of the worst Tier 3 units in this game and take the longest out of any unit to tech too, why the heck are you guys nerfing attack time by almost 50%??? And that speed boost…lol. So pointless. So now Zerg is just pigeon holed into either staying on lurker/hydra or going ultra??
Also, 10 shields off interceptors? Thats it? Almost every single Protoss player on ladder that isn’t vs Terran instantly techs to Carriers for a reason. Fix that sh**.
Finally broodlings are being nerfed. They lasted way too long, and they still do, but it’s a start.
Most of these changes are fine. I will go into more detail with each later.
Meanwhile one Thor can delete 3-4 broodlords with a hellbat next to it…
I hope to try a few games this weekend.
The main issues I wish were addressed:
Early ZvZs can end way too quick and midgame too often because mass roach vs mass roach.
Also since the tank siege upgrade was removed the unit seems a bit plain and not like the iconic BW unit.
Siege Tanks can still siege. They do not need an upgrade requirement, and they shouldn’t have one considering how crucial they are for early-game defense.
The purpose of specialized upgrades should be to weaken or delay powerful timing pushes or mass transitions that another faction would otherwise be unable to deal with.
Both changes make sense:
- Mobility is very important, so this can be a significant buff to “normal” Brood Lord use.
- There were several prominent TvZ matches where Zerg players exploited the spawn Broodling mechanic to attack units out of range, by targeting changelings or other Broodlings to spawn a wave that they would then send against the opposing ground force. This change is likely intended to limit or weaken that exploit.
Carriers are neither overpowered nor problematic. The main issue that people have with Carriers (other than completely failing to prepare for them) is that the Interceptors interfere with passive targeting, such that players have to manually order their units to attack the Carriers and other units instead of the Interceptors.
This PTR patch lowers the Interceptors’ targeting priority, meaning that units will prioritize Carriers or other combat units and casters over the Interceptors. That is a very significant nerf to Carriers. That change alone will likely require Carriers to be buffed in some other capacity.