Cheese is far too easy to execute and too difficult to counter. Change my mind.
There are too many instant lose conditions in this game. One example is proxy reaper rush in TvT. If you don’t scout it, you will instantly lose. If you do scout it, you will probably still lose.
I can’t see this as good and balanced game design, my apologies to the elitists among you who will surely disagree.
The game is very difficult and has a high skill cap by default. Why are players being rewarded by bypassing the most difficult parts of the game to go all in with attacks that are nearly impossible to counter?
If it matters to anyone, I am a Diamond tier player, so I consider myself average (below average?) at the game. At my skill level, I feel like these instant lose conditions should be reviewed and re-balanced.
its not, you just dont know what its designed for.
if you look at the 1v1 ladder, there arent many players. starcraft 2 is first and foremost an esport, or at least the 1v1 is. the campaign and coop were designed with fun in mind
also cheese can be frustrating for newer players but once you know how to handle it, its a free win. i win every game vs cheese.
I’m sure many people would join you in your hatred for cheese, I certainly don’t like it. However nothing is ever gonna happen about it, and cheese will always be in the game.
Never lose to reaper rush even if don’t scout. Just build 1 reaper. keep it home. and start pushing out marines until your factory is done. get a tank. rush stopped. and all while getting your CC up. Ive made many terrans quit or just way ahead after that failed attempt.
Now for terrans that do not leave be prepared of BC in your base about 60 secs latter. that is usually the follow u to failed reaper rush. and you are ahead.
hellion for what. unnecessary. unless you are afraid you will not have tank out in time… just don’t lose your first reaper then you would have to get the hellion and build a 2nd reaper and it could possible snow ball from there.
I guess its depends on your play style. I just prefer the tank so I can march across the map with a few tanks and some Vikings… well a lot of Vikings. now that I think about it. I like Viking wars. they are awesome.
Problem is tanks are kinda useless vs mass reaper, at least in comparison to Hellions. Back when 3rax reaper was meta in TvT and TvZ, Hellions were the proper response I’m fairly sure.
I missed that era. and besides a tank can one shot a reaper just put it where they would jump up on ramp and its gg. and you should have 1 maybe 2 reaper of your own and marines. and a cc up
The game is balanced for the highest level. Im not saying you don’t have a point but that is the nature of SC. Also, SC is generally unforgiving which makes cheese plays seem insanely hard to stop sometimes. Even at the pro level, it takes a while for the meta to shift for something to be consistently countered (e.g. Stargate opening in PvZ. Zergs hated it but at the highest level started shutting it down even before balance changes really killed SG openers).
That question is really outside the scope of my knowledge. I’m not a game designer, I’m just a consumer making what I assume to be a fairly obvious observation.
But my answer would be to reduce the ability of proxy buildings to produce, reduce the combat ability of harassing units, provide more options to defend against early aggression, or a combination of the three.
It’s sad, but people enjoy watching one player use an EZ strat to put pressure on another player that has to pull all the stops to hold a cheese. Disgusting game design, but it is what it is.
Hate to say it but it is due to a Terran bias. From day one Terran was super overpowered and always got the most overpowered stuff in expansions as well. Reapers and Bio alone were insanely overpowered at the start of WoL. Then Liberators came and they were overpowered. Widow mines also to a certain extent. Maybe even add in Cyclones since they needed a lot of unit changes. Other races had this too but Terran has had the most with proxies alone being nerfed MANY times and are STILL used.
Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think it is imbalanced now. Maybe proxies are a bit too easy to execute but if Zerg does send out a drone and find your barracks making you are super ****ed. And any more nerfs to proxies would just mess up Terran. The extended build time for depots is already messed up IMO.
Cyclones were, actually. This is partly because they had a lot of HP, and partly because of their fast attack rate at the time. Cyclones still work well and guarantee a kill too.
Hellions are pretty meh against reapers unless you get enough numbers to deal with them effectively, but they aren’t particularly good.
Surprisingly, tanks work quite well, depending on where they’re positioned, but cost a little bit more gas. if you can hit them on the edges of your base with a sieged tank, you’re generally going to be okay.
Cheese is just a strategy like any other. You don’t learn how to stop a BC rush until you lose to it a couple times and know what to look for, and after that you know how to stop it. Just like any of the strategies in starcraft, you learn how to counter them. It’s just part of the game. I would just suggest scouting more, Serral won everything in 2018 largely because of near perfect scouting every game, and playing reactively (imo).
In original SC2, you started off with a lot less workers and the buildup was much slower, and imo allowed for more time to scout cheeses ahead of time. I wouldn’t suggest going back to it (early game was long and boring), but it is a possible solution if someone did want to cut down cheese.
You could also play on EU servers. NA is the server that you’ll find the most cheesers on, Europeans tend to play a more standard game, from what I’ve seen.
every strategy game has cheeses, in chess as a beginner you would lose to the scholar’s mate and learning 4 steps cheese is really easy, so if you learn how to defend it in the right way, you would almost never lose to the generic cheeses(of cource there are some very exotic cheesers).
Yup, AoE 2 has tower rushes, tic-tac-toe just start in the corner and you can never lose, and on and on.
You could prevent early game rush cheese by having a no attack timer but that would just push the cheese to however long that is. It’s a balancing game, if you make it so cheese doesn’t work then defender’s advantage would be too strong and games would go on forever.
Edit: heck, there’s a notorious guy who cheesed Jeopardy of all things.