Wrong. Terran MMM is literally the end all be all what you need to hold all-ins.
2.The best defense would be to just have cheap units and remake them instantly. Like oh terran does?
3.The worst late game you mean, you cant do anything vs mass bc +ghost, you cant do anything vs broodlord winfestor.
4.Except every tech unit protoss has has a hardcounter. Twilight tech = ghost
Robo tech = raven stargate tech = mass bc.
except those few community post updates blizzard makes cuz of these forums that basically ask the community what they want? Somuch pro’s involved in that huh?
even better, how many protoss pro’s do you think blizzard ‘balances’ off of?
If you actually manage to transition into the Terran late-game, then the Terran army (Liberators, Battlecruisers, etc) is arguably stronger.
Protoss gets their late-game first though; since they can easily trickle their late-game units in as support and core whereas Terran needs to replace most of their army.
Mules take longer to mine minerals, so they are worth roughly 3 workers each. When you make an Orbital, you are essentially delaying 2 cycles of worker production to get 3 workers for a total of 150 minerals. This only becomes an advantage later when your mineral lines are fully saturated.
In practice, Protoss is consistently ahead in the early game:
Protoss start with Chronoboost.
Protoess does not have to take as many workers off the line to build structures.
Protoss does not have to upgrade their units or build up a critical mass of them before they can compete with Terran. By contrast, Terran Bio needs to research Stimpacks, build Medivacs, and reach a certain mass before it out-trades Protoss. Terran mech starts up later and also needs to reach a critical mass before it can compete with Protoss (apart from Cyclones if they consistently have vision and opportunities to kite).
I agree with the first 2 statements. Protoss starts with chronoboost. And protoss doesnt need to take workers off to create buildings with.
The last statement is biased and untrue.
Protoss does need to upgrade there units if they want to be effective. gateway armies need gateway research, twilight tech, blink and charge, they need double forge. you need a robo for detection.
Protoss needs more tech to be on equall footing with terran. Stim comes from an add on wich you also need to get marauders, wich is almost free to build.
Twilight council = 150-100, then blink research 150-150, charge 100-100, double forge 300, double upgrades 200-200.
Robo = 150-100.
Now add all that up. and see how expensive stim really is 50-25 + 100-100.
This thread pays homage to the age old rules of balance whine: the best time to cry imba is after you’ve received buffs and the other race has been nerfed.
Well, if it was the economy all along, maybe we should revert the upgrade nerf? You wouldn’t want ineffectual balance changes in the game, would you?
Gateway units beat Barracks units without upgrades. This is true in both StarCraft I and StarCraft II. You can test it yourself if you don’t believe me.
Stalkers can kite everything to death and whittle down even Marauders.
Zealots simply outtrade everything when they catch up.
Blink and Charge make Gateway units more effective, but you do not need them for Gateway units to beat Barracks units before Stimpacks. Stimpacks for Bio make a much larger difference in direct combat than Blink and Charge do. Stimpacks account for 33% of Bio’s DPS, whereas the effects of Blink and Charge are much smaller.
Furthermore, Barracks and Factory units usually need to hit a certain critical mass to trade against Protoss even with upgrades.
I’d love to see your replay of how you beat KingCobra, Genius or at least Rotterdam (who is much much below then these 2 I mentioned)
First game below is how the typical TvP/PvT goes:
This is Alex007 playing, one of the announcers in SC2 whos random account used to be hovering around 6K MMR on EU.
Notice, he went exactly for strategy that was supposed to be buffed - 3 barracks stim timing push followed up by addition of Vikings and Ghosts with EMP upgrade and Protoss still rolled over him with chargelot-colossus-HT with ease.
I mean let’s be real, he played terrible. He slacked in storm (how can you get stormed these days with how ridiculous ghosts are). He didn’t have enough vikings even though the first AOE protoss went for was collosus (like wtf ??)
First game is by far representative of how people play TvP, maybe for noobs like you it is representative.
Imo Chrono Boost should be treated the same way as MULEs and Inject. It should require a Gateway to make a quick upgrade on Nexus at least once that costs 150 minerals. That way Protoss economy would not escalate so quickly.
let me guess you are wasting resource on buildings than a army to fend them off?
If you are making just buildings as Terran and walling off, That’s probly whats wrong. Need to find a balance of army and structures.
If ground units are what you are struggling against dont make tanks. Make Lib’ and siege mode them. This way Zealots cant rush them.
Zealots move faster than Marines+Marauders and survive 50% longer before Terran researches Stimpacks. They easily outrun Marines and get their hits in unless those Marines are hiding behind a wall.
Stalkers are faster than Marauders (same range) and their shields regenerate. They can continuously kite Marines and poke at Marauders, and when a Stalker gets hit all you have to do is cycle it around so that another Stalker takes the next shot while the damaged stalker regenerates. Bio units (apart from Reapers, which are extremely weak in combat) cannot be healed until Medivacs come into play
Protoss Gateway units have always had the advantage over Bio before Stimpacks and Medivacs. It’s amazing that you as Protoss player can be so ignorant about this match-up.
I suggested ages ago to make Nexus starting energy 0 or 25 if 0 would prove to be too much AND revert upgrade time increase (it was stupid) AND buff something Protoss (e.g. Adepts) if it will become too hard to hold 1 base all-ins without these 2 first boosts.
And then see how it plays out.
You profile says you made it to master league 2 times.
Alex007 made it to GML many more times then you made it to masters.
Thus, your opinion on his skill level is irrelevant.
Honestly I wasn’t really expecting for life long Protoss whiners for any constructive discussion.
Regarding Alex play, he was making Vikings non stop since the moment he knew his opponent is going for Collosus and he used EMP on Zealots because they are more dangerous for Terran army. Protoss attacked before EMP upgrade was even finished despite the fact that he went for this upgrade extremely early.
Actually no, Charge-less Zealot has same movement speed (3.15) as Marine and Marauder, which means as long as those two don’t stop to shoot, Zealot should never catch them. And if Marine fires back, of course Zealot will have the opportunity to land a hit as well.
Stalker runs faster than all 3 of them (Zealot, Marine, Marauder), true, and it can poke. But it’s not as easy to regenerate the shields as you make it out to be, as it takes 7 seconds of not being fired upon for shields to start regenerating. On low amount of units, as long as Terran has 1 Marauder, this is not something easily achievable.
Vs pure Marines, however? Sure, Stalker has definite advantage due to 1 range difference and movement speed difference.
Also I somewhat disagree on Bio requiring Stimpack and Medivacs to get an advantage over basic Gateway units. Concussive Shells is often enough to reverse that relation due to it halving movement speed, as it was since WoL. Stimpack and Medivacs seal that deal, sure, but just Concussive Shells are enough to make poking very risky for Protoss and necessitate Blink and Charge.
By the time you have Marauders and Concussive Shells Stalker have Blink.
You can loose you entire infantry without killing a single Stalker (Protoss just Blinks away with damaged Stalkers).
I’m not saying that this is unbalanced it just makes you feel terrible when you lost your entire army for nothing.
Chargelots however absolutely murder MMM+tanks. Or hellbats+tanks (unless we are talking about very large number of tanks and hellbats).
I see. I remember a patch that was supposed to increase the Zealot’s speed before charge to 2.75 (3.85 in the units you are using), but I guess that patch never actually went through.
Either way, at 2.25 (3.15) Zealots can still catch Marauders and Marines if they try to fight back, which is the point.
Yes, you have to keep the Stalker out of combat for 7 seconds before the shields regenerate and a minimum of 14.28 seconds to heal the damage from one Marauder hit; but the fight is still in the Protoss player’s favor.
If there are multiple units on each side, then the Stalkers can keep cycling out which one is in front to continuously attack the lead Marauder. Since the Stalkers are faster, they can often get their hits in with only 1 shot in return. The Stalkers can also take up to 4 shots each without receiving any permanent damage; whereas every shot against Marauders or Marines is permanent until Medivacs hit the field.
Terran is at a serious disadvantage if they move out with Bio without Stimpacks and Medivacs. This is why Terran players often turtle behind a wall or Bunkers until that point.
