I mean, they stick out like a sore thumb. Just put EMP on the raven so it makes the army cost a little more, and makes ravens viable as a late game option agaisnt zerg and toss.
As of right now, ghost are tanky, have to much range, and counter WAY too many late game options. Like seriously, they hard counter vipers, investors, lurkers, ultras, high templar, archons,immortals lol like wtf. Not to mention they can INSTANTLY cut protoss hp in half with an aoe attack. Its absurd lol.
And that queen nerf is gonna be wild in zvz lol
5 Likes
I think putting EMP on the Raven will break TvP because they will be too easily killed by Phoenixes, especially since Adept/Phoenix is a common professional strategy, and getting High Templars is a logical progression from Adepts. Also, that will likely mean that Ghosts will have to get Interference Matrix instead of EMP, in which case that will break TvT because youâll no longer be able to break stalemates by disabling enemy Siege Tanks, and will have too much crossover in TvZ since youâll most likely want to snipe Vipers and Infestors if you can (and Queens if theyâre very slightly damaged).
I think the PTR changes are focusing mostly on the early game currently, or at least where cheeses are concerned (although Lurkers are an exception here since Adaptive Talons is Hive-tech).
I gave my own suggestion for Protoss countering Ghosts a bit better in another topic - for Zerg, Iâm not sure yet.
Phoenix get shredded by vikings, marines lol theyâre not going to wipe a squad of ravens without a high commitment.
Ghost dont need interference matrix, the have nuke, snipe, and cloak and will still be a strong lategame and mid game tool. And yes the point of the change is to increase the apm requirement a bit. Zerg has to juggle 3 different spellcasters on top of their army to counter a single unit smh terran having to juggle 1 more wont be a problem.
They need to revert EMP and do something about snipe. No doubt
Because. There. Is. No. Worse. Unit.
2 Likes
Swarmhost and ultras have something to say to that.
I would say that the Swarm Host could possibly use a supply cost increase (to 4) or a +25m +25g cost increase, but honestly Iâm not sure. Especially when used as part of a cheese, they are ridiculously strong, especially if the Zerg player skips their first Queen to get a Lair as fast as possible (like once, for me, 3 of them popped out of a Nydus Worm at 4:30, and thatâs after killing the first worm).
Ghosts are fine as they are. I donât mind reverting EMP if necessary back to just base, but I donât really think itâs needed.
Honestly the ghost is already difficult enough to control as it is, even for high level players.
1 Like
But ofc 2 abilities need to be nurfff. Why dont we make ghost cost 300 gas while thinking of 2 abilities nerf??
If u arent Z u have no right to complain about snipe. It is clowns like u that make me and others diss protoss players.
Like Miro said i think we dont mind losing the emp upgrade completely as the only ghost change
For every snipe nerf number make a decrease ghost cost ratio. Until make it us less
I doubt this gold player can speak about balans
At risk of getting my head chopped off Iâll comment on Ghosts from the perspective of a Zerg player.
Iâll state something true but will probably be unpopular: Zerg late game is the hardest to play. It requires the most micro by far, if you donât think this is true try controlling infestor viper lurker brood lord with ground squads to defend against drops and deny bases. Requires 4 - 5 control groups minimum for effective play. Ghosts are the counter to the entirety of the Zerg late game army essentially, and once Terran gets ghost tank liberator setup in a position the only micro required is to micro the ghosts.
That being said I think it would be too much to ask for a Terran to be required to micro both ghosts and ravens in order to have an effective late game force. Perhaps a slight nerf to the ghosts themselves as they are ridiculously strong but I think Terran has enough micromanagement/positional duties to maintain to make it fair for them to be required to do what Zerg has to do. The balance of Zerg late game armies being harder to control is they are rebuilt insanely quickly and due to creep can also be repositioned insanely fast, the trade off is the ridiculous APM and attention to detail it requires to control such an army.
Ghosts might be strong and when combined with liberator, tanks, thors etc cannot be engaged in with directly however they canât really split their army and itâs very difficult to reposition, so it balances out imo
4 Likes
the problem with Ghost in TvZ is that his role is not right. âanti-casterâ? Ultra/ Brood/ Lurker are not caster but are all countered by Ghost. at the same time ghost can use as harass with nuke/ invisible.
Look at Clem, mine medi ghost⌠vs zerg late. a couple tanks for base def. and compared to other casters they have a good aa vs ground and air/ solid mid range.
just take the aa away from ghost and see what happens.
You speak entirely from pos of playing vs mech player. Have terran use mmm and with ghost vs banening zerg suddenly eZ micro is not becoming the hardest
If snipe is not against air ghost cant cost so much. Decreasing range also not good bcoz then u cant counter templars esp with disruptor ballz (do mods get triggerâd every time one says ballz??)
Yes ghost counter SH, lurker, brood, infestor but gosh thanks goodness for snipe. This SH hit and run can only stop like that. Even serral was using just nydus and sh
Maybe but what else to counter broods? Fungaled vikings?
Ghosts are really strong,but most of the time you see them being just ok or underwhelming,it depends a lot on the game and the player. If disruptor wasnt in the game then EMP would be broken, but disruptor balances the game,t can engage into disruptor,p cant engage without shields.or energy. The problem is mass disruptor,easier to get and manage than mass upgraded liberators.
The Ghost is a dead clown unit that has no utility other than desperate attempts to zone actual spellcasters like Viper or HT. The Nuke is useless and has no relevance in current gameplay. Ghosts are tanky? 5 Ghosts get overrun by 20 Zerglings, while the ghosts cost 625 Gas and the Zerglings exactly 0. Ghost abilities are trash, cloak costs energy that you need for emp (unlike perma cloaked protoss units), the nuke is a pure show ability and the snipe takes too long to ever snipe anything. Most ghosts, that try to snipe, just get abducted or overrun due to lack of retreat options ( like Blink, Shadow Stride etc. ). This unit not only needs a substantial buff, it needs to be reworked from the ground up.
It was a fundamental mistake to seperate the Ghost from Marines and Marauders. The Ghost needs Stim, it needs at least DOUBLE the Damage. INSTANT Snipes and the upgraded EMP Range as Standard. Then reduce the cost AND build time. Build time down to 25 seconds, cost down to 100 Gas and 75 Minerals. It would still be worse than HT and Viper, but at least viable below 6k+ GM late Game and it would make bio usage more efficient, since terran is already the hardest and least rewarding to play.
Ghosts are fine, they need no nerfs. Just l2p.
Late game ZVT will always devolve into ghost thor liberator tank vs lurker viper infestor brood lord at some point, it is only a matter of time. Whether Zerg uses banelings or Terran goes bio or mech it will eventually arrive at that point no matter what.
What I have said still stands. Once the Terran gets to their ultimate army the way it is managed is setting up a siege position and microing the ghosts. This is less micro intensive in a straight on engagement from the Terran, but requires more thoughtful placement of the army on the map. Zerg will have to have 4 control groups being managed efficiently in any possible fight but they can flight across the map at the speed of light.
This is just the way the game works, you canât get around it, and saying zerg has EZ micro is not an argument nor does it have anything to do with the point I was making which was defending Terran from the OPs suggestion lol
Even when you try to give Terranâs some help theyâll still try to find a way to call your race EZ for absolutely no reason. I hope you guys never change.
1 Like