So... why can't blizzard fix the most OP thing in gaming?

Like literally it makes no sense to rig a game completely to make one race completely overpowered compared to the other 2 races then reply on barely-functional NPCs claiming protoss is the most underpowered thing in gaming because it doesn’t stomp better players QUITE as much as they wished in tournaments?

Skytoss is the most OP thing in gaming.

Protoss in general is the most OP thing in gaming. in BW it’s very arguable but still, in SC2 there is nothing to be argued about, literally no amount of continuous brainrot form people who think protoss is the most underpowered race changes anything about this.

If you’re hardstuck with protoss, you’re a joke, your entire worldview is a lie.

How can anyone fail while picking the most OP thing in gaming?

And why would a company make something so incredibly overpowered that the game needs to be actively lost by the protoss player at any respectable level?

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You sound like you are just biased, new to the game and decided it’s time to flaunt all that whine and entitlement for everyone to see.

And to boot I bet you don’t even mean Skytoss. I bet you just see a few void rays and carriers and scream imba while smashing your keyboard while ignoring all the archons and stalkers with it.

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there couple problems a toss is forced go this route because upgrades. Especially that there micro abilities is one tech path later.

Then on top of Zerg lack anti air units and only 3 combative air units which each of air hard counters. On top of are range is short vs there 13 range to 6 range. Vs 9 spell Range 6 attack to 3 range.

Much we like call op but Zerg is very under power in this regard as well. This blizzard folly that they copied paste sc 1 to 2 never fixed root cause. Only symptoms that led to this.

Only real solution is Zerg needs another air unit or redesign of other. I hate that aoe damage can’t be increase. So we have no way to punish stacking air units. Spells suck vs attack.

They actually massively buffed it this patch. Spore nerf, mothership buffs, ultralisk speed nerf. Skytoss benefits from all these (spores insta-die vs tempest and carrier and zealots; ultralisks can’t get on top of high templar as fast; mothership is buffed in general but it also auto-kills changelings).

The mothership auto-killing changelings is what crosses the line for me. Every other race has to beat nydus lurker using skill (see the changeling, click the changeling, use multiple hotkeys to spread out your army). But toss aren’t expected to do that. The mothership auto-sees and auto-kills the changelings. In the rare event a nydus does go off, the toss just uses recall to deal with it so he doesn’t need multi prong.

They did the exact opposite of what they needed to in this patch. They needed to increase protoss skill expression and decrease the reward of no-micro protoss players. They did the opposite. They haven’t increased the skill expression and they’ve buffed the f2 amove toss players. Toss will continue to be unbeatable on the ladder while they get dominated in tournaments. The people in charge have absolutely no clue what they are doing and need to be removed from the project immediately.

OP skytoss wouldn’t even bother me if it hadn’t been the norm for the past 6 years. But we’re on year 6 of 80 iq protoss apes amoving unstoppable carriers armies. SC2 esports has cemented its fate. It’s buried 12 feet under and had cement poured over it. Adding SC2 to microsoft’s game pass and doing a good balance patch was the last chance this game had at returning to its former glory. The balance counsel fumbled so flipping hard that players are trying the game and then immediately quitting:

https://i.imgur.com/pdoX9ZK.png

SC2 esports is going to devolve to protoss turtling with a ball of carriers above mass cannons and each game is going to take 40 minutes to resolve. In the end, serral will still win because the skill expression was nerfed rather than buffed.

Only way to fix this mess is to make a new RTS game and in the EULA ban the balance counsel members from playing it explicitly by name. Then you can be certain they will exert zero control over the new RTS realm that supersedes this dumpster fire. At that point the only thing they could do to harm the RTS genre is to cry about it from a distance on youtube. You might need to ban some of the youtubers and pro players too because they exert significant influence over the game design. So if someone frequently espouses harmful things for the genre, they’d need to be banned in the EULA.

If you are worried about losing popular youtubers, then don’t worry. For every pro player banned there are a hundred more ready to step in and take their place. Right now the pro players use balance as a means to keep their competitors out of the pro scene and that’s exactly the mechanism creating all of sc2’s issues from A to Z. Get rid of some of the toxic players, at a bare minimum don’t allow them to influence balance, and the game could’ve been taken in a positive direction. Instead we have year 7 of protoss ladder dominance which they’ve done to help toss win premiers but they still won’t win premiers and so it’s just a complete failure from A to Z.

High level terran and zergs are fine with this arrangement because it keeps the tournament victories coming in on schedule while the balance counsel is scared to buff toss due to its ladder and minor tournament dominance. This happens because they don’t know on a fundamental level what is creating the issue. Balance was never the issue for protoss. It was always skill expression. Protoss micro is too consistent – whether it’s a code s toss or a rando from GM it looks the same. You can’t tell the difference between the two. If you look at Maru, you can very clearly see a difference between him and your garden variety GM terran. Toss has a skill expression issue and adjusting balance ironically keeps it from winning.

If I were running the balance counsel, the mothership’s attacks would be extremely powerful, far more powerful than they are currently, but they would require manual focus fire for each beam. A high APM protoss with good focus fire would be overpowered, but a low skill protoss who can’t click fast enough and can’t multitask would miss out on benefits. See? That creates skill expression. That’s what terran has with marine medivac micro and as long as toss doesn’t have it they will never win premier tournaments. The counsel did the opposite of this, giving the mothership automatic attacks that even target changelings automatically. Flat buffing protoss across the whole ladder creates balance issues and doesn’t even make protoss win premier tournaments. These people need to be fired. Give the job of balancing the game to someone who actually knows what they are doing. They’ve had 6 years and tens of thousands of games to identify the problem and they still haven’t figured it out. They are incapable of doing it.

What’s truly amazing about their incompetence is the fact that this has been a known issue for years and a center of discussion here on the forums since basically forever and they still get the answer wrong. Imagine taking a test next to a guy shouting the answers out loud and still failing the test. It can’t be understated just how bad these guys are at game balance. It takes crazy amount of incompetence to have years to prep for a test, people telling you the correct answers, and still getting it wrong. It is either sheer hubris of galactic proportions or they are doing it purposefully aka cheating. Those are the only two options left at this point. It’s probably a mixture. Some of the members are OK with the outcome because it’s good for them, and some of them are too proud to take the advice of their game design superiors.

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That title goes to late game zerg army. And if you want name of the most OP unit in the game - it’s Queen. Terran can beat late game toss army with vikings, ghosts and ravens.

Try that against zerg - good luck. The only way to beat zerg is to camp 40 mins behind PF, tanks, ghosts, libs and mines and pray zerg runs out of money.

Ah yes, the hardest to control army in the game is ‘OP’

Whatever it is you’re smoking, you should probably stop.

F2 a-move is very hard to control. Ultras are very hard to control, lings, banes - all these units are very hard to control.

A common sentiment but extremely inaccurate: https://i.imgur.com/8mEOpvJ.png

Keep in mind the toss units on this chart have been buffed and the zerg units nerfed since this chart was created. Tempests for example were buffed this patch. Everything skytoss is buffed due to spore HP nerf. Broods were nerfed to the point they are basically unused in any matchup. Etc.

So no, zerg late game army does not hold a candle to protoss. Zerg usually has 20% more income than toss but toss units like the tempest trade at 2.16:1 efficiency. It’s not even close.

Pro level zergs win from tempo plays that hit very specific and narrow timings. Outside of those timings, it’s impossible to win late game fights. The supply efficiency of a maxed toss army is astronomical and zerg offset that with spores which don’t cost supply. The situaton still advantaged protoss because zerg has to stay defensive to win fights, meaning toss has map control. Zerg’s only option in that scenario is a +2 adrenal ling runby. That’s not viable vs the new mothership and the spore nerf means toss auto win all direct engagements. It’s literally impossible to lose a late game fight without colossal control mistakes from the protoss.

Ultra ling bane isn’t the late game Zerg army. If you’re losing to Ultra ling bane, you’re not losing in the lategame. It’s an army for either timing attacks, or transitioning into the lategame. Ultras are garbage vs a Protoss that makes any amount of immortals, and fall off extremely quickly once Terran starts building ghosts and libs.

I just gave example with melee units. The only zerg units other than spellcasters that require micro are ravager and mutalisk. Everything else is purely a-move, roach, hydra, corruptor, broodlord, because zerg is designed this way. Zerg benefits from F2 a-move because it controls large armies consisting of cheap, fragile and expendable units which are difficult to select at once. Try playing terran bio or toss gate-robo with F2 a-move. Good luck.

Yet one barcode zerg player could play against Heromarine without using a single control group for his army. Now try the same with terran and protoss. Did you forget about this ? Was it you whom i told this before ?

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Multi prong without control groups is even harder. It’s common for protoss in the pro scene to not use control groups and they rarely multiprong. The goal is to multiprong and hotkeys just make it easier. The lack of hotkeys doesn’t mean the lack of multiprong. Some zergs carry over from broodwar and in broodwar hotkeys were bad to use so they box selected everything.

This is what happens when a player has 0.1% less multitasking than serral:

https://youtu.be/TId3u9rXPRU?t=1898

The reason they don’t multiprong is because stuff like that happens when they do. Speed is everything in starcraft and you simply can’t be 0.01 seconds late doing tasks in the game because it compounds until you are 1 second late reacting to a major event (at which point, the game is instantly over).

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and the storms as well

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It looks like the balance team has finally given zerg some special tools to help against this air toss strategy, but whether you can be bothered using them is another story. I can understand why people don’t want to play Zerg with the APM requirement.

It’s literally a late game snowball of gateway and skytoss. That’s what most people forget.

Use rapidfire lol. EZPZ

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10 marines spamm 2 siege 1 medivac gg vs all protoss start, no need to think about it or skill need it, and people complain about the toss for real

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Yeah, that’s not how things work past like Plat

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Well, Blizzard isn’t balancing this game. It’s being balanced by a group of pro gamers and the Zerg and Terran members of the group just don’t struggle much against Skytoss. You could watch some of their matches to get more insight into how they handle it as it’s not so much a question of fancy micro as either not allowing the Protoss to reach a decent air army or just making sure they have plenty of anti-air units ready to go ahead of time.

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Tbf most of the top Zerg players don’t struggle vs Skytoss because they kill the Toss before it becomes a threat. There’s like 2 or 3 Zergs who will happily play lategame vs Toss, and only Serral makes it look easy.