Since blizzard is apparently listening to us right now

As someone who has played more Terran than Toss in his life, there will never be a better form of vision/scouting than scan. Simple as that. It is more balanced now that there is an opportunity cost, essentially costing you minerals to use it.

But, at the end of the day, when you need to figure out what’s going on… nothing beats playing as Terran. When you get solid with Terran, you feel like you should never lose, as long as the game is balanced.

I rarely ever make a lot of observers. They cost too much gas. It takes up robo time, limiting the amount of other robo units you can have. It’s the Toss version of opportunity cost. Yeah, you might have observers to see what’s coming… but you might die cause you don’t have enough “good units” to stop it.

I’ve always thought that simply placing pylons around the map is better than making a lot of observers. Sure, Terran can see when they fly over a pylon, but if it deters them from dropping… I’d probably prefer that than having to deal with the drop in the first place.

Zerg’s vision is just an unprecedented level type thing. There’s nothing fair about Z vs T in that regard. When you get to see nearly the entire map without even having to spend minerals to obtain the vision… how are you supposed to lose to anything? Zerg units need to be weak just to compensate for how broken mass creep is…

Toss’ vision is horrendous. There’s nothing good about it. If my opponent masses observers, I couldn’t care less. Just means he will have fewer immortals and get rolled even harder by colossi. And obs are so easy to pick off, I’ll still snipe them just to add insult to injury.

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From my experience this is only true at about diamond or lower. Protoss and Zerg players that are competent will gather far more information than Terran can especially after this current map pool. There is a reason the reaper is favoured as a scouting tool over scanning.

Try opening with stalker zealot, that mitigates the issues you outlined. There’s a reason this style is so prevalent.

You can’t build pylons in your opponents base or over dead space.

Zerg units trade fine against Terran, it’s just that you can’t actually kill Terran as Zerg.

Yeah PvP is different to PvT.

I’m hearing Terrans cannot scout as well as other races. Did somebody say Reaper buffs are warranted?

Speed Deeeemon.

The only hard part about scouting with Terran in BW was the early game. There was no reaper. There was no “I’ma get in your base every game unit.” There are so many harass option for Terran in SC 2… that you simply pick one and you get damage done along with intel. There’s no excuse to ever be blind sided as Terran.

When you go out to attack, you think hey… where could I lose if I got flanked… and you scan. As long as your head is in the game… and you’re not overly greedy… there’s no excuse.

Observers instantly die. I have an easy time spotting them. The observer is god awful. You know that I can’t even get an obs into Future’s base, even when opening robo before nexus? The guy just says oh… you have a robo… I know where it’s going, so let me just intercept it before it gets there.

A Terran that plays smart has next to nothing to complain about/fear. Toss scouting is just god freaking awful. I can’t even open phoenix to scout Terran cause a freaking cyclone kills it from 500 range away.

When your race has cloaked units and Toss obs couldn’t be any easier to snipe, it’s a problem. It’s so exploitable. The observer is so bad, that I feel ashamed to ever lose a P vs P game. Cause if things ever get hairy… you just snipe the obs and warp in a dt. Takes zero time/effort. Anyone can go mass viking/banshee due to this. Well, also it helps that viking can kill all units on the ground, too.

Terran is the race to play if you want to beat map hackers. I used to absolutely dominate map hackers, even guys who were number 1 on the ladder who were clearly hacking. Cause… if you play solid and you use scan competently… they have no vision advantage. They’re left to beat you mono a mono. It’s not happening.

Play vs a hacker with Toss and you’d be lucky to beat anyone. It doesn’t even matter how good you get at in this game, if you’re not Neeb level any clown that hacks is going to beat you in P vs P. It’s sad.

Yeah, we can’t. The reaper was good for early game scouting where we eclipsed Protoss although not Zerg but the map pool has removed this advantage. Although even with good map pools our scouting into mid game transitions has always been the weakest.

I’m not familiar with BW so I’ll defer to you here, but I was talking about SC2.

I wish… It’s very map dependent.

I don’t play off of game clock timings so I can’t give you specifics but I will say that there are timings where my first harass unit scouts something I have to react to slightly about 30 seconds too late.

It’s cheaper and more thorough to run marines everywhere across the map.

There are tricks like putting observers in positions that are on the far side of where the Terran will have their screen.

Fair point, I should learn that specific timing to be as abusive as I can.

You can’t beat a maphacker in TvT. If I maphacked my TvT might get to around rank 16 GM, being that it’s my strongest match up by far and vision is so incredibly important.

I know this is old but Patchtoss had rank 1 GM Protoss when he was maphacking but about rank 50 Protoss when he wasn’t.

I have no idea how you’d know when he wasn’t hacking/cheating and what his rank would be. I get that it makes sense that if a guy lost a lot of ranks you’d suspect he’s not always cheating. It just seems like a lot of guess work, though.

He’s known for it. It’s pretty sad that no one copies this. He’s the only guy where people will try to take weird routes to his base. Like he will just go out to the middle of the map and wait…

DTs being horrible in LotV helps a lot. I went DT every game in HotS, in part to abuse the scan mechanic of LotV. Terran would end up with less economy, due to having to use scans and needing to also bank energy. They would also be less encouraged to use scans for scouting.

Now that DT styles aren’t viable and everyone makes a raven, it’s not a lot of fun. Just like the best units are ones without counters, there is no counter to scan. Everything kills observers, though.

In the end, at a high level everyone’s “game sense” should be so high, that it shouldn’t really matter. What is always going to matter is how easily you can lose your detection, though, when the other guy has cloaked units. I honestly feel like P vs P is close to unlosable if the game goes into the mid-late game. You just can’t attack into anyone with how easy it is to snipe obs. You have to play for the late game, but most people don’t do so.

Because I used to talk to him a bit. I was in a Skype and later a Discord group with him. That’s why I’m able to tell you with a high degree of accuracy.

I’d probably hate you if we played regularly in HotS. I hated DT builds so much you have no idea.

At least you guys have the oracle now.

Just revert the last 4 or so balance patches.

Job done. Game balanced.

I dont understand how terrans complain about vision observers etc.

You have scans, detection towers and cheap units you can spread all over the map.

I dont get it, why dont people seem to see observers cost 75 gas and are made from the robo delaying protoss tech.

When people make 5+ observers… Howmuch gas is that…

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Whether it’s true or not, I dunno. Maybe. But, given the guy is a pathological liar, who knows. The guy was always trying to befriend me, and I thought he hacked. I’m like stream and prove you’re legit… IMO, only reason he even streamed or thought about it.

Every time I watched, I was impressed by his mechanics. Some people are just going to cheat no matter what. He’s such a shady guy. Would always lie about hacking and would never tell you his alias.

Him and his buddy eurotrash are both cheaters. All of his other buddies probably the same.

“Maxpax” into DTs. Didn’t get any better as far as ladder goes.

I feel like I’ve only seen the oracle be useful for detection vs dts when trying to stall for robo/obs. It’s such a flimsy unit. Like if you want to attack into someone massing vikings, you have to use an oracle for vision… It’s like having to rely on lings vs mass colossi.

I have no idea what Toss players should do. The number 1 ladder guy, chance, who is 40-1, I absolutely destroyed this guy a day or two ago; I can’t beat anyone who plays Terran. No matter what my comp is, economy, or supply… I just get steam rolled. It’s a joke.

I used to roll everyone in P vs T in HotS, now I can’t beat any army? I thought army fights were one sided in Toss’ favor in HotS, but LotV feels like it’s the exact opposite, but Terran also has the same/better mobility. They have every single advantage. It’s absolutely insane.

If Major is whining about the observer, it’s cause there is absolutely nothing else to complain about. Like I get that it’s probably cause it was brought up/in the patch notes, but my god… what is there to whine about? The zealot? Jesus christ.

The HP on our assimilators got nerfed and it was just “obvious” to everyone. Yet, nothing Terran is too good vs Toss. Obviously not. Boggles my mind.

There’s a button for the observer that lets you F2 your army around now, didn’t you hear?

I think imeurotrash was also asking him to stream too, honestly.

It’s really hard to click on the vespene geyser with a worker in time, apparently.

I get it you dont want any decent argument. So you talk about random bs.

lemme do the math for ya. 75*5= 375 gas in units that literally cant do anything but ‘see’

I forget about sensor towers. To be able to make sensor towers and planetaries… It’s like having a spy satellite follow you around while you plan on breaking into fort knox. Impossible stacked onto of impossible.

Anytime I see a lot of observers, I’m equally impressed with how they managed to make that many observers without dying as I am their vision/spread. Usually it requires making at least 2 robos. That kingcobra guy is the picasso of observers.

Ur not getting adpets with more HP than a freaking tank and the ability to shoot air and ground and plus to light damage and ability to shade and high movespeed… for 100/25

My god protoss players are something else

Give terran back warhounds and sure u got a deal

Adepts still would be very balanced since the vs ground wouldn’t be changed and the HP increase isn’t that much compared to other Protoss units.

I think this suits his comment better

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I still like to push my Protoss addition, an energy upgrade for Sentries:

It’s possibly a little awkward, and things like cost and research time may need to be tweaked (the Robotics Facility requirement may be unnecessary). The idea is that newly-built Sentries can cast Guardian Shield as soon as they warp in, providing a soft defensive option for when one is caught by surprise by a drop, Battlecruisers or Mutalisks, especially in the lower leagues. Granted, it’s still an expensive defensive option since you’ll be spending 100 gas. For more offensive options, it also allows hallucinations right off the bat or, once again, a simple Guardian Shield if one is created under a Warp Prism on the front line.

At the moment, the stats are as follows:

  • Name: Khaydarin Matrix
  • Structure: Cybernetics Core
  • Effect: Sentries start with +25 energy
  • Cost: 150m 150g, takes ~85 seconds to research.
  • Prerequisites: Requires Robotics Facility

Blizzard please nerf the following units: Battlecruiser, Zergling, High Templar, Collosus, and Broodlords.

I remember when he complained about shield batteries when he got cannoned rushed /w immortals. I remember watching the replay with someone on Twitch. And he won that match anyway.

Pros will inevitably want something that helps them and only them, with a few exceptions. Korean Z pro said he felt bad winning vs Korean P pro because he knew Z was OP at the time, still is imo.

I cant remember the names was it Trap vs somebody?

Myoh should be a comedian his puns are so good.

Adept was bordeline useless til the previous patch, now its more garbage than its ever been…

I made a post about giving adept a buff awhile back, increasing the range to 6 in a mod.

I do want aa for adepts, would be better than the stalker, and could supplement and/ or replace it vs light…

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