The title says it all. Blizzard presented this idea, and it is something to consider, especially when the end of year patch can have so many different design changes that can help offset the charge nerf.
What other things do you hope to be targeted at the end of year patch? Do you want some nice reworks like last patch or some major overhauls?
I’m on the fence. Overhauls would crazy, but a nice rework of some units would be cool as well!
I would like to see them get rid of warp and just buff Protoss to eternity and back. Everyone hates the warp mechanic so much, and nothing holds Protoss back like warp.
Would that remove too much of protoss’ identity in Sc2? In Broodwar it was different, but in Sc2 warp is such a pivotal part of their racial identity.
Being actually strong IS a part of their identity, not warp.
No one liked warp, ever, since day 1, nobody will miss it.
The thing is, it is just impossible to balance Protoss until warp is gone. It is just not possible. When you can produce units at the front line, Protoss units have to suck. Warp is the single reason when Protoss finds something strong, it is nearly unbeatable and has to be nerfed. When Protoss has a strong build, it isn’t ever just “strong” it is just broke, like the immortal+sentry+prism allins. Warp just needs to go.
Charge needs a rework.
More power should be put into the speed increase it gives zealots and power should be taken out of the ability.
Charge should have never done damage.
Protoss has no identity in SC2. It’s a badly designed mess duct taped together by gimmicks and hard counters.
given the ecomechanics in all of sc2 that is true for all 3 races though, i mean we have now swarming terrans out of reactiored barrax, lategame zerg that is strong and hard to engage due to spellcasters and than we have protoss limited by thier gimmicky production of standard stuff building in buildings accompanied by warpins which splits the reinforments procurement thus making it needlessly harder for toss to manage warpgate+stargate/robo-stuff
the problem i see is that warpins now is iconic to sc2 toss thus removing it must have an outcry in community to some degree …
Personally my preference would be to reduce the build time from gateways to match the cooldown times on warp gates, and then give warp gates a larger cost of some kind. Maybe an opportunity cost, like doubling or tripling the cooldown so it isn’t your go-to production, or maybe just actually requiring resources to upgrade a gateway. Something to give gateways a reason to exist.
Well, there could also be option of front-loading production.
Gateways could have normal build time on units, but after they get built, you could warp them in in 3s at any powerfield you wanted.
This way, you could still reinforce instantly after battle using gateway units, but you would need to prepare beforehand and would be limited to whatever you built already or need to wait for some other units to get built if you needed Stalkers instead of zealots you prepared before.
This would also nerf warp prism game as killing it while warp-in is on would put gateways back on full CD even if resources got refunded. Its cost could be reverted back to 200. Pickup range is mostly relevant in PvZ where warp-ins dont play such role so idk if this change would affect it enough to keep 6 range.
The problem with strong gateway units is that they already tend to roll over most mech compostitions. Since gateway units trade quite well with terran mechanical units and are easier to replenish.
TBH, Stronger Gate units wouldn’t be a problem, even against mech, if warp mechanics comes at a cost. I like the idea of having to produce like normal gates THEN being able to warp produced unit in like 3s. That forces a constant production and reduce the yolo 10 zealots in your production.
Stronger gates and gates units would also allow the tuning down of Tech units/splash damage of toss and deathballs, as well as dismiss the 3nexus on one gate currently in PvT.
PvZ might play like TvZ or BW PvT and I’d like to see that a lot. Hell, I might even switch to Toss. If the trade is mech terran being even worst in this match-up, I could not care less, worst case scenario: reworks can be done afterward.
As for changes, yes Zealot is stupid currently and charge should be reverted to it’s previous state. Itis the only thing that allows the 3 nexus into 8 gate which leads to Terran “pull the boys” all games on two bases. It also is the reason lategame PvT is so static, the protoss put a siege line with battery storms and tempest while sending chargelots everywhere.
Other required changes;
Adept buff or rework, the shade is super fun and this unit should be able to shine outside of the first 2 minutes of the game.
Reaper revert could be interesting for the same reason, and could maybe even replace the zealot charge revert, here’s are my thought.
Reapers in WoL haven’t seen early abuse once steppes of War and likewise maps got scrapped, this is not something I could be too worried about. However players like Thorzain, MMA and IMMVP started using lategame reaper, especially in TvP with interesting results.
First of all, they are good anti-light, fast and requires only one supply, they might be the answer for dealing with the mass chargelot aclick warps lategame in TvP. Furthermore they provide another harass option late game, AND had a crazy anti-building attacks.
As the current lategame TvX relies on the Terran hoping for money nukes or enerving while turtling because the Aliens are creating sieges lines with tons of static défenses and chipp away T units with BL/Infest/HT/Tempest AND have the harass monopole. The Reaper could be the tool that makes lategame stay away from that cancer fest. The fact that LoTV economy is so saft paced might be the reason this lategame reaper might be more accessible than in WoL.
So Yeah, revert reaper to it’s WoL State, no unit should be stucked to the first 2 minutes of the game or cheese play by design.
Reaper/Adepts changes might be sufficient to change the BL/infest, and the “mass nuke hoping mmy opponent messes up” problems.
I hate to say it but there are protoss in Grandmaster for no reason other than that they can load and unload units out of a transport. Giving all protoss ground units blink for 200 minerals is way too powerful. Chargelot allins are very challenging to stop already, but when the hurt zealots can blink out of danger it’s a whole new realm of broken. I just hope the prism nerf makes vs Protoss tolerable until the next redesign and I hope blizzard takes a serious look at the bc too. More and more games keep rolling in that show the bc is 3rr levels of broken - elazer vs thermal in wcs challenger for example had a 1 base terran beat a 4 base zerg.
Here we go again another thread of people asking for Protoss to be unbeatable using the excuse of design. I’ve seen this before and the result is always disastrous.
I did see that game, and as much as I dont want to agree, it may be time for TJ to get that upgrade nerf, or else remove TJ. Warp as a mechanic just needs to go in this game. For Protoss and the BC. If warping got nerfed or removed it would be a great day for the entirety of SC2.
I even told myself after that game was over that if I was elazer I’d have gotten up and used my keyboard as a bat.
If they remove warp, I boycott protoss, and maybe even SC2 as a whole.
You mean like we have a reason to use un-add-onned terran buildings?
Warp prism was the major issue and I am glad it is being nerfed. Plus with the Terran buffs, zealot nerf is overkill. Maybe in November with the major patch it can be done because Protoss can receive buffs to compensate. So zealot nerf is more important for design rather than balance IMO.
I’d like to hear what Zerg pros are saying about TJ after that. Everyone knows Zerg late game is stupid, but I’ve always had a problem with BC openings. I think they’re just way too good for too little skill investment. I did it for a while because it was so fun, but now when I want to meme, I just go ghosts, they’re actually quite skill intensive and even more fun to use.
Zerg pros have mostly been saying that BCs are not broken, but they’ve been resurfacing a lot lately (since the last time I heard that comment) and I do think it needs to get stuffed behind an upgrade.
Yeah, I think everyone remembers me staunchly defending it, but earlier everyone was posting counters and I was like is just needs time… but after that game, I want to say Elazer played bad and he really did, but to lose being a 4 base Zerg to a 1 base Terran due to BC’s… I don’t know anymore man, I think about that game a lot and just how upset I’d have been if I was Elazer. I don’t open BC’s because I feel dirty doing it, I still open 2-1-1 or 1-2-1 or 1-1-1 and go battle mech. Not a big fan of the BC opener.