I feel like the game was better balanced when we had only 6 workers to start, builds felt more flexible then as well.
4 Likes
Definitely. At least back then we could scout a Cannon Rush. Now it is impossible.
6 worker is way more fun.
They thought it would “speed up” the game but it did the opposite. They wanted to zoom past the boring early game and get to the part where players start trading. This didn’t work because it pushed back the timing of the earliest attacks.
The point at which players start trading is when a macro player over-shoots his economy and under-invests into defense. That creates a timing window where you can hit with an attack. The earliest attack from zerg used to be from a 6 pool, which made expanding to the low ground VERY risky for protoss players. Protoss who over-shot their economy would die to an attack, so they opened 2 gates in their main, made some units to trade, and then expanded. Action was hitting right from the start.
Now the earliest is a 12 pool, which means you can defend it while still placing your gateway on the low ground. This means it’s pointless to 12 pool (or any pool first for that matter) and zergs have to hatch first. Now that Zergs are going hatch first, the protoss can push back the timing of when he gets defense even more because the timing of the earliest attack is pushed back even later. This is a compounding effect, by the way. It takes quite awhile before an opponent tries to over-expand. Usually it now happens at the 5th base mark.
Thus we have settled into a stalemate meta where ZZZZZZZcraft players spend 10 minutes building bases and expanding before any real battles happen. SC2 is not going to survive this stalemate meta. The previous one from HotS nearly killed the game and that was when the game had a much healthier player base. Now LotV is being propped up by free to play, still doesn’t have as many players, and is diving deeper into a stalemate meta than HotS was in.
3 Likes
The fact that they changed the whole eco system in starcraft to cater to the e-sports thing is probably on the same level of stupidity as diablo immortal, and the wc3 scam.
4 Likes
It was a terrible idea to throw away years of balance tweaking
But returning to 6 workers at this point would be an equally terrible idea
Leave it at 12 workers
3 Likes
The game is riddled with bad units, bad design, a stale meta, toxic community, disinterested audiences, neglect from blizzard, loss of major tournaments, drama with casters, censorship from China…
And this man’s idea to fix it all? ChAnGe ThE NuMbeR of StaRting WorKErs.
1 Like
Workers should stay same, balance should be tweaked to reflect the fact. 6 workers meant all-in was really all-in. Nowadays, enemy can show up with army and if they prevent you from expanding, they already are 2 bases up without trying or taking any wind from actual attack.
4 Likes
Definitely not! Maybe 10 workers at start… 12 is also not bad, but they doesnt adjusted structures build time for 12 worker start!
4 workers as in Brood War is a valid idea too.
2 Likes
True. How often I listen comentators from pro games: he is all-ining from 2 base…??? Like what? He has production and income untouched, what an all-in? Just a regular 2 base push with delayed expo
If we went back to 6 workers, we’d need to do HEAPS of other balance changes.
But I for one would actually be on board for that.
2 Likes
6 worker is more balanced than 12 worker start. It breaks tvp. You can test it yourself, search for hots chronoboost mod on custom. Hots chrono is even stronger than lotv chrono, yet protoss is ahead in economy in lotv. It is by fact, that you can take natural, before building cyber core, but terran has to spend 150 for orbital. Even with cyber first you are ahead. Because 12 worker start and first chronoboost is for free. 12 worker start also break tvz. You will have 3 bases behind roach/ravager all in, previously in hots, zerg would be stuck on 2 and yet take counter dmg from banshees, which are now useless thanks to queen range !!!
12 worker start and less resources per mineral patch are worst changes ever made
2 Likes
If they went back to six workers, brought in the double harvest model and removed macro mechanics I’d be happy.
2 Likes
I like the 12 worker start but feel some structures could take a little longer to complete, to push back some allins and cheeses without needing to use massive maps that only promote macro play.
2 Likes
Hmm from what i remember wings of liberty, it was slower start and games took longer overall.So i would stay at 12, i think it worked better
No.
Here are 20 characters.
Just add an additional 30 seconds onto the build time of all early-game buildings (Supply Depot/Barracks, Spawning Pool/Evo, Forge/Warpgate, etc.) and it will slow things down appropriately.
I think the worker count to start is just fine. The game has a nice pace at the start
2 Likes
Some people agree
https://mobile.twitter.com/Kaelaris/status/1224295383318388741
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I guess you never saw all the numerous 9 pools turn into hyper-aggressive, scrappy mid and late games, or the 10 forge cannon rushes that did the same.